Get rid of One Raiding level altogether

Hear me out: With M+ gearing now in the mix we no longer need 3 raid tiers (4 if you include LFR) and having 3 tiers fractures the raiding player base too much. It’s gotten to the point that filling both normal and heroic groups is difficult. Players will start normal and then once they “m+” past that stop showing up. Raiding populations should look like a pyramid with the largest number of players showing up for normal, second largest for heroic and smallest in Mythic. But that is not the case anymore.

Instead of 3 raiding tiers, just reduce raiding to 2 tiers and use systems like valor to bump your normal raid gear along with m+ until you can do mythic.


Another plus is that developers can spend more time on something else instead of an unnecessary third raiding level.


How about Blizz just makes Raiding in general more attractive to the modern player.

Increase the number of drops per kill.
Allow drops to be upgraded with Valor instead of the new Cypher system proposed for Season 4.
Open Mythic to Cross Realm from the beginning.
Fix the scaling from variable Raid sizes.
Give End Bosses great drops for all specs.
Stop making craptastic Trinkets.



I think changing raid sizes is the most important thing. The idea of raiders raiding for 6 - 9 hours spread over 2 - 3 days a week is outdated and doesnt work for a lot of players.

1 to 1.5 hour mini raids with a targeted loot system would be much better for the current player base


I agree and lose these 10 minute fights as well.


There are players who raid, but don’t do M+ and M+ players who don’t raid though.

Honestly though, the ilvl for heroic raiding does seem a bit weird to me. Doing a 15 nets you a 278 in your vault but the highest ilvl for raiding in heroic is 265 (basically anyway)

idk how I feel about it. I don’t think getting rid of heroic is good. It’s a good middle ground for people who enjoy harder content but don’t want the stress of mythic raiding.

I’d rather see them do something like allow us to upgrade gear from heoric reasonably or the ilvl be more fitting somehow, but again not sure how they’d work this.


Not everyone wants to feed the M+ machine.

Hear me out: M+ should be turned into a lobby and placed onto its own servers. The rest of us can keep doing MMORPG stuff.


I’d also like Blizz to dump all the current difficulties other than LFR and replace them with Raid+.

Lose the lockouts and tune the fights so they don’t take dozens or hundreds of wipes to progress. Allow 10 to 30 players for any key level. Allow drops to be upgraded with a universal currency like Valor.


They could add an extra stuff or a mini-boss add for mythic that extends the fight to 10 min. Or they could have a key for certain bosses that boosts them, like in m+

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Do you have any idea how big the jump is from normal to mythic? Hell, going from heroic to mythic is big.

Having some more ilvl isn’t suddenly going to make a normal raider a mythic raider.


Yeah creating YET ANOTHER currency instead of just using valor is incredibly stupid.

They should make honor/valor interchangeable for PVP/PVE and allow people to participate in whatever content they like.

Adding another currency to now split the PVE community is STUPID.


Heroic raiding is the only thing i still enjoy in this game. I dont enjoy M+. that would leave me no reason to keep a sub.
SL heroic raiding has not been rewarding, but i dont really feel SL as whole has been rewarding either.
So im not sure its heroic raiding thats the problem. More so the current reward system, which is trash unless you M+.


Heroic is the most popular progression difficulty, though, according to API mining sites.

About 40% of the playerbase reliably gets AOTC. About 10% also do Mythic so let’s call the Heroic-only crowd 30%.

The entire %% that does the raid at all is 70% of the playerbase, but that extra 30% that does the raid but doesn’t do AOTC is split between people mostly focusued on LFR and mostly focused on Normal.

As a single, individual difficulty, Heroic is the most popular, by far. Getting rid of it would be silly.


stop making content so few do like M/raid
start making more ways to gear
put in fun and social content

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Is the best thing to do. Good for the players not get tired but also cause it gives more variety of themes. The current format with 10+ bosses, using the same theme makes it even more hard to complete after hours and days. It’s tiring.

More raids with less bosses is the way to go. Also it would be good for te lore. I think all zones should have at least one raid to end the main campaign of the place. The dungeons should be the mid way, the place to face the allieds of the big bad, before we face him/her at the raid.

Mythic will need to be flex or whatever. My guild does aotc. Normal is too easy. We don’t do mythic cause we don’t don’t have consistent 20 people.

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That is the whole problem. Since 2004 the best gear in the game came from raiding. You saw someone in blackwing lair and molten core gear and you knew those players were the best of the best in the pve scene.

Nowadays you can get the best of the best gear in a dungeon… tell me how that works. You dont even need to raid anymore to get powerful gear that makes you a god in the game. That is my issue.

BIS should NEVER come from m+s. Raiding has always been the end goal for a lot of players in this game including myself.

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It also makes sense for Mythic to scale from the other point of view. One of the worst things about Mythic in its current form is that you need to have more than 20 people on the team (since sometimes people can’t make it), but when you do have more than 20 people online (which is most of the time), not everyone can play because you can only fit 20 people in the instance.

Flex Mythic isn’t just for people who don’t have 20 people in their team, it’s also for people who have more than 20 people in their team.

Blizzard needs to let people play.

“But if it wasn’t fixed to 20 then they couldn’t tune the raids properly.”
As if the raids are currently tuned properly in the first place. :laughing:


Them just doing 19-21 or 18-22 flex would be a god send.

The tuning, well the tuning for the top 100 guilds vs top 1000 guilds is basically an entirely different difficulty setting at this point.


RWF needs to be moved to private tournament servers like MDI and AWC.

On the RWF tournament servers they can have whatever crazy overtuned mechanics they want. And set the instances to strict 20-man-only.

But keep it away from the rest of the game and the other 99.99% of Mythic raiders.


The problem with raid is the gear simply isn’t good, in that trinekts from raids now. Especially in this expansion given barely any trinkets have been worth it. Heck even the old SoD trinekts, I.E. old warriors soul and aegis, are better than current M+ and SotFO offerings.

Blizzard has done a bad job at designing and tuning trinekts and gear from raid. To where it’s worth it more to M+ for the bulk of your gear, then raid specific bosses for trinekts. As I guarantee if you were trying to form a group for pantheon, anduin or the jailer. Then you would see a lot of people queing for them given they all drop some really good loot.

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