Get rid of One Raiding level altogether

difficulty gap between normal and mythic is extremely vast, and the majority of the player base doesn’t seem to want the difficulty of heroic or higher. so making normal harder likely wouldn’t give good results.

This seems to be based off the idea that those devs could then develop quests or something. that’s not really how that works.

Don’t like M+ at all

Normal is too easy/boring.

Mythic forces 20m(no thank you) and is too toxic with requirements of do X and Y etc

Heroic is perfect for me. And I don’t farm/grind the M+ hamster wheel. I mostly have Heroic raid ilvl loot

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I agree with this.

4 levels per tier is too much and causes iLvl inflation.

Reduce it to 2 and make normal usable via a queue like LFR but without neutering it.

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I’m not actually opposed to deleting a Raid Difficulty at this point, due to the impact M+ and more endgame-relevant world content has had on gearing.

But I don’t think Heroic is the difficulty that should go.

Delete current ‘Normal’. It directly competes with World Content with its rewards. Guess which form of content is DRASTICALLY easier to complete? It’s not Normal Raid. It serves very little purpose in that regard. If you’re not doing organized group endgame content, World Content still more or less matches Normal. If you ARE, then you’re probably doing M+, which outclasses normal starting at… +2. Or like +6 or something if we only look at EoD chests.

So, Normal is gone since it has zero niche in the gearing process.

Move LFR up to the name ‘Normal’ without any notable difficulty changes. It is still available in the queue. It’s just called ‘Normal’ now. The major change here would be the ability to still select ‘Normal’ as a raid difficulty and walk in with a manually formed group. Entering the raid in this way would not be subject to the timegated release schedule of queued raids, and would scale properly down to 10-man and up to 30-man like other non-Mythic Raids. Determination would stick around in the queued version, as it’s effectively the Raid version of the Dungeon ‘Luck of the Draw’ buff, but would not be present in manually formed runs. This should preserve an “easy mode” that you can bring less skilled friends/family to without involving randoms from the queue, which is what “old” Normal was billed as anyway.

Heroic remains unchanged.

Mythic remains unchanged. (I’d argue for scaling raid size like all other difficulties, but that’s not the topic here)

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:+1:

Blizzard just nerfed a mechanic by 90%. People actually be trying to tell me the raid fights wouldn’t work if people brought 18 or 22 players.

:+1:

Make World First Race its own marketing event. If Blizzard is worried about guilds swapping comp from 18 to 22 and then back during WFR, just set a fixed raid size during the race and then the live serer version people can do whatever because it’s not treated as a competitive event.

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Wait people raid normal still? Why?

Then you have 2 different difficulties getting the same rewards.

And this is different from Dungeons giving random groups a 15% buff vs Manual groups getting 0 buff how?

Fair point, but does anyone actually manually form a dungeon group?

They should definitely fix that though.

Most of them quit the game. The “Beer Night” demographic wasn’t into the level of commitment that Blizzard thought they would be. It didn’t grow on them. More of Ion’s experimentation that has resulted in loss of players - and the pool of potential raiders grows smaller.

So the only reason for normal to exist was to prop up “the gearing process”? It wasn’t about raiding with your guildies on a casual basis?

Not everyone plays the game strictly for the purpose of flexing on their gear.

LFR is not a learning difficulty, It is a raid that requires a raid leader but does not provide one. The idea that people will queue for it because you got tricky and changed the name to “normal” and will somehow spend hours or days as a group of randoms (who don’t even all speak the same language) watching videos and reading analysis on the web to design strategies is wishful thinking.

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4 tiers of dungeon difficulty + 4 tiers of raid difficulty… it is ridiculous and it’s why we are seeing insane gear bloat at the end of the expansion.

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We are seeing “insane gear bloat” at the end of the expansion because that’s what designers want. They want a maximum power gap to reward top players and teach a lesson to those who are not that they should play the game like a job (or two or three) to get better gear. And they want to have a reset every expansion so they can throw it all out and nobody will complain.

They don’t like designing or supporting an existing MMORPG. They want to create a new minigame every two years. Continuity would work against that.

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I agree. They don’t need to have 10-12 boss raids.

Just do 4 boss raids but release them more often. And stop putting trash in the raids. Oh wait that’s what ff14 does

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Sure. People play for fun. But gearing is a core part of how endgame content is designed. If something isn’t fitting into the gearing scheme properly, I think it makes sense to either get rid of it (especially when its a 4th difficulty of the same content) or change the gearing system to fit in in better.

The issue is, “fixing” the way Normal doesn’t fit into the gearing scheme today would involve angering everyone who currently relies on world content and queued content for their gearing. So it’d be better to not go that route in this case.

I don’t understand what you’re responding to here.

LFR currently functions just fine. And I have not suggested a change to that other than the name.

The manual-group version would just be replacing current Normal, and would be EASIER, not harder. Because it’s still current LFR difficulty.

you dont need 4 levels of raids its should be lfr,heroic and mythic blizzard shoudl remove normal raids honestly.

I dont mind trash as long as it makes sense. For example, the audience in karazhan made sense…but there is 0 reason for all the trash in SoD.

:roll_eyes:

They gave everyone a difficulty that works for their skill level and you can’t get over this idea that they’re persecuting casuals. If they wanted to they’re just eliminate their content and make a smaller, more tailored game.

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Get rid of mythic+ dungeons. They’re a disaster for the game, the community, the feel, etc. I despise them. They’re not my style of game at all and I prefer the historic experience of raiding tiers for gearing up, working your way from normal (or LFR if you’re a casual starting late without a guild) to heroic and up.

I think the game’s best PVE aspects are world-questing gearing for casuals, (heroic) dungeons to supplement with currencies for bad luck protection, and of course raiding with LFR being the casual space to see the stuff while the truly elite players who want to be the best of the best go for guild mythic raiding and the steps in between for various levels of commitment and talent (which is why I think heroic raiding should stay, there are some guilds that normal is too easy and not challenging enough and they want better gear but mythic is too difficult or requires too high a commitment).

M+ dungeons encourage toxicity and elitism and among a play-style (5-person content) that historically didn’t have it. Bring back wrath era systems of badges from heroic dungeons to encourage people to play those to gear up, do more stuff with time-walking as well to get people into that content. That’s what I want to see from dungeons. Raiding should remain 4 tiers (LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic) as it works exceptionally well. Anyways the extra step of tuning for Heroic after already tuning for mythic and normal is very little work I’m sure. It’s mostly done. The extra job of tuning and making mythic+ dungeons on the other hand is a lot of work and if they killed that and reassigned the teams from it we could perhaps get many long-term “It’ll cost a raid tier” nice things.

Flexible raid sizing is also btw one of the best things ever put into the game.

I think of mythic+ dungeons as time-wasting sweaty arcade-style white-knuckle-fests and that’s just not what an MMORPG historically was or should be because of the anti-social elements it fosters. MOP style challenge modes just for bragging rights and maybe a title or gear I have less of an issue with but I don’t think enough people would use them to justify their maintenance.

However I think there is something to be said about artificially long boss fights in raids. I think for expansion finale bosses or even final tier bosses longer fights are fine especially if they have some roleplay elements (I’m thinking of Lich King of course here as the ultimate example of doing this right) and different distinct phases but the time-wasting as with mythic+ nonsense could be fixed.

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pretty sure Ion designs the mythic version first, then works backwards to LFR.

4 different levels of difficulty for no real reason just bloats the game.

LFR and normal would be fine with separate servers for mythic…

like Tourney servers for PvP.

God no, the 4 boss “raids” (you just zone into a boss) FF does is one of the major downsides to the game not an upside.

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