Greetings Warcraft Devs!
Here are my humble first glance opinions and suggestions.
First of all, a small question pack:
Are we super sure about the names and concepts and will they also add titles or some extra features when we choose to use them?
(While you consider answering that, I’ll continue :P)
San’layn Death Knight
- Vampiric Strike:
Considering the recent numbers 1.5% haste is too miniscule, I guess we wouldn’t feel any difference if it procs. So I’d prefer a more stable number in between like a solid 3-4% instead of RNG. Consecutive and following Vampiric Strike procs may reset the duration buff to 20 sec.
San’layn Row 1
Choice Node: Newly Turned & Vampiric Speed
Blood Soaked Ground:
May also increase the damage of Death and Decay by 5%
Choice Node: Vampiric Aura & Bloody Fortitude
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Vampiric Aura:
Solid Leech amount may be increased to 5% and Lichborne active version lowered to 50% because 100% may be a bit too overpowered when everything adds up.
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Bloody Fortitude:
Would be better if this would give a solid 3% damage reduction plus an additional 30% when the Icebound Fortitude is used and active.
San’layn Row 2
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Infliction of Sorrow:
This one’s pretty good imho, nothing to add ^^
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Frenzied Bloodthirst:
Considering my solid haste suggestion at Vampiric Strike, I’d say instead of Essence of the Blood Queen stacking 2 additional times I’d increase the solid haste buff to 4-5% and increases the damage of our Death Coil and Death Strike by 5% all the time, without the need of any procs and uptimes.
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The Blood is Life:
Instead of chance, I’d give a 20 second cooldown to summon a Blood Beast to attack your enemy for 10 sec. Storing attack and explosion is very nice, I’d keep those.
San’layn Row 3
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Visceral Regeneration:
Considering the solid buff mode of my suggestion, if this talent is chosen Heart Strike and Scourge Strike may simply have a chance to refund a Rune and Vampiric Strike may double that chance to refund a Rune.
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Incite Terror:
Considering my previous and simpler suggestion; Heart Strike and Scourge Strike may instead extend the duration by 2 seconds
(In my suggestion above Vampiric Strike procs may reset the duration buff to 20 second already so no need for that here, these two effects can be swapped.)
Choice Node: Sanguine Scent & Pact of the San’layn
- Sanguine Scent:
Your Death Coil and Death Strike have a 15% chance to trigger Vampiric Strike when damage enemies below 35% health and it is guaranteed to critically strike.
(This one is pretty good, I wouldn’t change it)
- Pact of the San’layn:
(Extreme Change Suggestion Incoming! ;P)
I would change this to keep the Blood Beast as a permanent pet, reducing its healing effect and removing its explosion but add an area effect attack to compensate.
San’layn Capstone
- Gift of the San’layn:
While Vampiric Blood or Dark Transformation is active you gain Gift of the San’layn. Gift of the San’layn increases the effectiveness of your Essence of the Blood Queen by 100% and replaces your Heart Strike and Scourge Strike with Vampiric Strike for the duration.
(I liked this one as it is too, wouldn’t change it.)
So, this one was my first suggestion salvo, I’ll read all the other three and may add similar feedback if I can.
Thanks a lot if you have bothered to read these ^^
Agreed, if this system is to be expanded upon in any way in future expansions since it is “Evergreen” I’d like to see nothing more than a Hero talent tree for some Race/class specific combos, like Warden or ShadowHunter, otherwise the “Hero Classes” if you will, will likely never be seen as playable in game since they are so similar to existing classes. For this reason I think it’s important they really think this system through because there will never be a more sensible way to add these things to the game, they’d be painting themselves into a corner. I wrote a more in depth post on the matter, down in the comments.
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Mountain Thane does have that Mountain King vibe. Is Storm Bolt going to be part of the rotation now? Because it should.
Blood Beast is essencially another bloodworm, right? Well, Blood Troll stuff is always welcome.
DK - Please please please rework the lichbane leech before release.
As its worded right now, they would become mandatory Meta and would be almost required for both M+ and Raid.
100% leech for 10 seconds once a minute is insane. It would be silly to run a M+ without one, that opens up 10 seconds of DPS from your healer every 50 seconds. In raid you could negate healing CD rotations every 50 seconds by running 1 DK per group in raid. We could potentially see lust and CD’s held to align with fight phases to outheal the damage.
Hpal - As it stands , its a badass concept and it , in writing, would be so cool to have. HOWEVER, building the paladin to be reliant on someone else understanding the game and playing it correctly is , for a lack of better words, stupid. The average player can barely get out of fire or move to LOS a mob in the middle of combat, but they are supposed to know to pick up and use the proper abilities to synergize with the CD!!! no way… if they are gonna do it they need to take away the other players need to understand what it does and how it works.
Other than the above noted , this is such a cool concept and I cant wait to see what else you guys come up with! Just remember, cant make everyone happy and nothing will be 100% balanced, but as long as you guys continue to take feedback (like recent changes) I think it will work out just fine! # FIX WW MONK
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Yea, since all classes are about to become accessible to all races, it’d make sense to add some level of class flavor unique to each race to motivate people to play that specific race and feel like it has a deeper meaning to it.
I guess Warden could be a Rogue that gets the ability to wear plate? Orcs could get Blademaster and gain access to some spells such as Mirror Image?
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I share your skepticism of their decision on the names and concepts they’ve chosen. I feel like they’re backing themselves into a corner here by not capitalizing on more of the Lore engrained community requested Class adjacents that already exist but aren’t playable, such as Warden or Shadowhunter, and Blademaster.
If they can’t deliver on a concept it shouldn’t be added, but also if there exists in a lore a class concept such as Warden, Shadowhunter, Blademaster, Witch Doctor, Dark Ranger, that is already so similar to an existing class that it doesn’t warrant a new class altogether they really should be doing everything they can, up to and including rethinking how this entire system functions, (Perhaps how 2 Trees are tied to 2 specs, removing this might help).
If they don’t add these class adjacents now, they will have painted themselves into a corner where can’t fit them into this already rather bloated system.
Nice notes, well organized. I don’t play any of the classes they posted today except warrior so I can’t speak to whether or not any of your other notes would be sensible but that’s the kind of lens we should be viewing these concepts through.
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If they can’t deliver on a concept it shouldn’t be added, but also if there exists in lore a class concept such as Warden, Shadowhunter, Blademaster, Witch Doctor, Dark Ranger, that is already so similar to an existing class that it doesn’t warrant a new class altogether they really should be doing everything they can, up to and including rethinking how this entire system functions, (Perhaps how 2 Trees are tied to 2 specs, removing this might help).
If they don’t add these class adjacents now, they will have painted themselves into a corner where can’t fit them into this already rather bloated system.
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Glad to see it addressed as well but I have to disagree with their logic, They mentioned that they would make some of our regular class talents mandatory for some of these Hero Talents to work.
They could simply make Heroic Leap mandatory and make a Hero Talent to change it to Wind Walk, it would be a fair trade if Wind Walk is a Speed Increase while invisible for a very short time like 3 sec. Heroic leap is practically a teleport you can jump on roofs and what not, it’d be a fair trade.
Mirror Image could easily be a Capstone Talent for the Tree.
AND THIS WOULD INSPIRE THEM TO MAKE SINGLE MINDED FURY A VIABLE OPTION
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I’m a bit unclear what the “evergreen” vision is for this system.
Is the plan that these trees will grow longer and larger in the future? Or will there be new “hero trees” stacking each expansion? Will they be borrowed power system (for lack of a less-triggering term) that will be cycled out at the end of each expansion and replaced with something new?
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Vampiric Aura: Your Leech is increased by 3%. While Lichborne is active the Leech amount is increased by 100% and affects 4 nearby allies
I assume this is what you are talking about. I don’t think you are going to 100% or greater leech with this, reading it I am fairly certain they mean the leech amount the talent is given will increase by 100% or in other words it will go to 6%
In an interview discussing the DK hero talents they stated they wanted to expand the trees in the future.
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I would play hunter again if there was a ranged surv build. They murdered my love for hunter and left it in the ditch to be molested when they made it melee.
BM really should have been the melee build. The fantasy is just more sensible. In the Frey with your pets directing them and playing off of their actions.
Please bring back ranged survival!!
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I only just start playing again with 10.2 release (haven’t played seriously since Cata), so I can’t say much about balance. I really like the flavour of San’Layn, and I think the idea of hero talents is really cool. However, I beg of you, please, don’t make DKs stand in death and decay. Let me dodge mechanics without sacrificing my damage potential.
The concept is cool but the more I read the more I want nothing to do with lightsmith
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It’s another button with 2 charges to track and keep on cd
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You have no control over whether you get the shield or the weapon
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Looks like players have to go and pick them up. So another mechanic to track with all of the swirlies and other movement mechanics.
Strong suggestion - change it to a buff or integrate into an effect with wings or some other button
Concept is cool
Execution looks annoying at best
As far as the visual changes these will bring - like how we saw a Blizzcon video of warriors with lightning visuals on their attacks - please have the Elune’s Chosen Druid one make Wrath astrally blue.
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Leveling introduces you to your spec just fine. I just leveled a holy pally 1-70 and it’s quick enough where you’re not bored and you can figure out the spec.
If you’re boosting this is obviously going to be overwhelming and it should.
You don’t need addons to complete heroic or normal raids and don’t need them in m+ until 16+. They make things easier sure but weakauras and addons are 100% not required for the content that the majority playerbase does.
In order to play classes optimally you do need weakauras for sure and they can do a better job of letting that be in game than on third parties but I don’t think this is changing if you’re chasing optimal play for the highest content.
What’s sad is they’re even lowering expectations for any visual changes,“Most Hero Talent trees add new visual effects to classes” is stated in the article previewing the hero talents. That kinda sucks knowing that they’re mostly passive.
actually, lichborne give a base 10% of leech and with the talent it will be 13%x2 = 26% for 10 seconds. I think its a good defensive.
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M+ main here. I think San’Layn sounds great, especially hype for the group utility abilities, and hope that group utility is a theme in a lot of hero talents. I also love the blood pet, and the idea of consuming diseases. Hype for Rider as it sounds like the devs are too, from bicepspump’s vid haha.
The only thing that worries me is the possibility that working on the fun new hero talents will leave some of the older abilities “gathering dust” that really need to be refreshed. As a player, I would rather have the base class nice and polished, with wacky new hero talents that might need to be patched, than have perfectly balanced and 10000 hours tested new hero talents on top of Unholy that still takes 8 GCDs to get going, or Frost still being locked to regular, flavorless DnD for cleave.
Obviously, sell the new hotness, but some messaging around continued class design clean up is also very exciting. Overall DF has been great with that tbh.
Just add a few more things [talents/nodes] for each class/spec. That’s what they said initially.
It’s borrowed power - - - - re imagined lol (just a joke)