Doesn’t matter whether it’s reversing the nerfs to raid/dungeon content, class balance, QoL…etc.
ANY change at all, and then there will be people coming out of the woodwork demanding that THEIR changes go into the game too…One after another until it’s not even Classic anymore.
And yes I say WE, because I’m with the Classic/#nochanges community. The hundreds of thousands of players who signed that petition to get Blizzard to give it to us…The people who are the REASON that Classic even exists…not the minuscule vocal minority Classic+ crowd or people who just want “minor changes”
I will always advocate for the small changes that blizzard themselves know need to be in the game, They never wanted classes to be as broken as they are and they want to fix the classic and make classic how it should’ve been, Pallys with taunt, Elemental shamans and Boomkins not going OOM all the time, Feral druids not having to farm 100 Manual crowd Pummelers, you honestly think they intended these specs to be as useless as they are? These are the things that will change even if it doesn’t happen until Classic+
Lots of those things were addressed and fixed in TBC. All you gotta do is wait long enough, and you will get that with TBC.
I’m not a fan of Classic+ at all, but if you prefer that over the expansions more power to ya. So long as Classic+ is on a separate server, knock yourself out. If Blizzard wants to keep their newfound riches from all the resubs they got from Classic, they will keep it separate. Else they risk losing literally millions of dollars a month
This is pure comedy. If you’re not ALREADY in the minority , you will be eventually and that minority will shrink ever smaller as the phases roll out and the majority of people playing actually get to fully experience all of Vanilla’s shortcomings.
Believe what you want. You and I have already discussed the subject at length I very much doubt that there is anything left to be said that hasn’t been said already. I’m not here to convert or change anyone’s mind…only to point out how foolish it would be to alter Classic from it’s current form. Separate servers is the ONLY way to go in order to keep everyone happy…end of story
That’s actually not true. As long as just 1 person (including Blizzard employees) in any of the countries that WoW officially releases in logs onto that private server, every US copyright law applies and Blizzard can go after them.
Ahh yes thank you for pointing that out…this is yet another reason why Blizzard must keep Classic unchanged, or they will risk losing that legal leverage against private servers just like before with retail.
I just had a thought regarding this and wanted to take it a bit further…
I’m willing to bet that we will see an uptick in the number of TBC/Wrath servers once all (or most) of the Vanilla servers are shut down. Something tells me that the private server community will force Blizzard’s hand with putting those out later on down the line as well for the same reason.
if only this was true, however people have used the existence of stuff blizzard put in the game to ensure play-ability and accessibility to argue for more changes.
not if you have evidence to back them up, and this forum has plenty of evidence of people saying that classic isn’t 100% authentic because existence of (layering/color blind mode/bug fixes), therefore more changes should be able to be made.
yes, however we already have people using existing changes to vanilla as is to pressure for more changes. so how much of a fallacy is it?
i would be fine with this, as long as it stays true to the way it worked in vanilla wow.
can you say you haven’t seen some people on these forums asking for changes that go against the very nature of classic?
can you say you haven’t seen people on these forums using the existence of changes to vanilla in classic asking for other changes?
i too believe that there is some changes that could make classic a better overall game, including guild banks, earlier alterac valley, etc, however i do have concerns about what members of the community have been pushing for.[quote=“Galdor-maelstrom, post:275, topic:303355”]
What makes you think for one second that the SAME outcome will happen again?
[/quote]
because while we do have people asking for stuff that could be good for vanilla, we also have people asking for stuff that could be bad for vanilla too?
[quote=“Izuni-sargeras, post:278, topic:303355”]
At the same time not all changes are bad. What made Retail this way is because of too many hand out changes.
[/quote]and almost every change that has made retail into the mess it is has been asked to be implemented into classic.
i don’t know about anything, because for example, color blind mode was a good change, however layering has proven to have flaws and was exploited so bad that they were handing out temporary bans.
but what assurance do we have that good changes like
rebalancing raids
minor rebalancing changes to promote hybrids
barbershop/new models/updated textures
a complete earlier version alterac valley
are included to vanilla wow, while keeping stuff out like
heavy handed balance changes/homogenization of classes
And to explain the logical fallacy. The slippery slope is used to explain that allowing one/ any change will guarantee classic will become just like retail. There is no evidence that this is the case. Just because people are trying to push their personal QoL buffs with this reasoning doesn’t mean the slippery slope logic is true.
If a patch came out next week that tuned raid content, I am pretty sure the classic experience wouldn’t be ruined. I also don’t expect Blizzard would take that as a green light to reduce the cost of mounts and add pandas.
Regardless of what you think on the issue, I feel we could agree that blizz needs to release a statement clarifying their intentions with wow classic moving forward at some point. They stated they would be “paying attention” to the community but are they feeling out whether classic raid content should be tuned etc, or is there intention to keep classic in this perpetual 1.12 private server twilight zone.
I for one want continual development for classic because retail isn’t a place for me. Classic is my game. I want it to be a living game that dynamically adjusts to the needs of the changing player base. This can be achieved and stay within the scope of what is Vanilla perfectly well.
The slippery slope fallacy is just a bunch of fearmongering.
15 years of hindsight hasn’t stopped people from asking for even the dumbest of changes.
15 years of hindsight didn’t have blizzard properly test layering for potential abuse before implementing it.
depends on what the change is. if you balance classes just like retail, it might as well be retail.
it doesn’t make it wrong either. people have used the existence of layering (which is temporary and only to maintain healthy server populations), and color blind mode (seriously, only the biggest jerks in the world would be against this inclusion) to argue for other changes.
i see your point in this, but what guarantee do we have that the change would stop there?
you mean the same blizzard that royally screwed up the launch despite including layering and also didn’t properly test layering and it was exploited so badly blizzard handed out temp bans to people lasting up to a year long?
same here. however after 15 years i don’t know how much trust i can place in the community or in blizzard.
and this here is why. we did that with retail. look where we got.
not based on what i’m seeing the playerbase ask for on these forums.[quote=“Lucidia-deviate-delight, post:295, topic:303355”]
The slippery slope fallacy is just a bunch of fearmongering.
[/quote]
people said those who were anti layering were fearmongers and that layering wouldn’t be exploited that bad and would be used to ensure a good launch. those people turned out to be completely right.
People are allowed to ask for whatever they want that doesn’t make the slippery slope argument true. What makes it true is if blizzard listened and made radical changes that goes against the spirit of Classic. They have not done this yet. Do you see the fallacy yet? You are overestimating the power forum goers have.
“This is the SAME BLIZZARD that yada yada…” not really. Back in the day, blizzard refused to keep vanilla servers around for many, many years. They hunted down and prosecuted private servers with conviction. Today they took advice from one of the leading private servers to try and give us an experience that has been absent from their game for a long time. Blizzard also has 15 years of hindsight.
I hate layering, but only because I play on a low pop server. The biggest grievances of layering has or is being dealt with. The problem with discussing layering is that due to why they have been implemented, you cannot see or feel the benefit they provide. I have played on private servers at launch. 20k people on a game designed to hold a maximum of 2k people is ridiculous. With layering, we still had an overcrowded launch on many servers, but not nearly as bad as it would have been without. Again, the issues with layering have been dealt with when blizzard made changes.