Currently, I cannot say much as I don’t raid and there isn’t really any compelling solo content.
But I can tell you, with 100% certainty, that OG mage towers in legion for certain classes and specs was way harder than anything I was doing in heroic raids at the time.
As far as mythic raiding goes, it’s one difficulty tier, and as far as I can tell, is quite difficult. Respect and hats off to those accomplished raiders who complete that. But it is ONE tier of difficulty and it is doable.
It would be easy to make any type of content harder than another just by using multiple scaling tiers, that essentially have no end. So, by the simple fact of math, you could scale a delve up past the current tier of mythic raiding just by increasing the numbers to the point of impossibility.
Not saying you should do this, just saying it can be done. It really is just a manner of math and mechanics.
So, your argument has never really been true, in essence.
It’s not trivializing “other types of content”. PVE is PVE.
Although what should be equivalent for each PVE mode is debatable, suggesting someone who cleared mythic raid should start at lowest item level in delves or M+ is nonsense.
Players should have freedom to gear up in any PVE content they choose, not worry about gearing up for each PVE content.
I don’t know how they coded PvP vs PvE, but if it was me, I’d go “If PvP flagged = True” as my condition, which is why it’s relatively simple. However, your proposed solution goes from a binary system, to a quinary system: 5 states. Each state needs to be checked and flagged against appropriately, with the appropriate conditionals.
That is a lot of old, largely meaningless, content that needs to be reworked from the ground up to account for these.
No, it is not simple. Shocker, but many people engage in multiple pillars of content at once. So your solution is just ‘gearing’ with extra steps, as they’ll need up to 4 sets of gear to engage in all the different content they enjoy. Currently they need at most 2.
“How good is this piece in dungeons at X ilevel, vs being used in raids at Y, and oh I want to do mythics, which means I need that ilevel as well.” Plus, your stats lie to you since they tell you the base value at your current ilevel, not what your adjusted per-instance ilevel is.
Oh, so it invokes inflationary pressures too, since there is no sunk cost to remove items from the economy. WoW is very careful to minimize reusable reagents, and usually only at a very high initial investment.
It’s not hard to grasp it just doesn’t fix anything, you are telling people they should be weaker and juggle different forms of content for no reason. I don’t raid much but from time to time I fill for friends in normal or heroic using gear I get from M+ or now Delves, your ‘solution’ does nothing for me but strip that option. I will just fully sign off from touching raids with what you propose.
That entirely depends on when you were doing them. Antorus LFR gear put you so high it was laughable compared to MT. But also, that was 7 fights, with less-expansive kits, which were designed to be done once. They weren’t an endgame pillar.
I don’t know, I was guild and raid leading back then and we were doing heroic content. The hardest thing about all of that was just dealing with people and not the mechanics or the numbers.
However, I did the mage tower for paladin healing and paladin tanking with the same gear I was heroic raiding in and it was much harder to pull off on an individual and mechanical level.
That was my experience.
I cannot make the same argument about current day mythic raiding. I absolutely think it is worthy of admiration and respect. Therefore, I think it should get the absolute best gear… for raiding.
Because gearing is largely fine. The only people complaining about gearing are those who want solo content to be equivalent with group content, and than comment on making "solo content " as difficult as M+ and Mythic raid which is impossible considering the coordination and diffrent classes involved.
Make some friends, be satisfied with your progression, or go play a Single Player game.
It’s literally not fine. The devs have recently said as much. It’s literally not ever fine because the keep using whiplash measures to address whatever ego-hurt group feels it is on the losing end of the “flavor of the month” gearing approach used at any given time.
This is every patch, every raid-tier, and every expansion. This type of issue has been a hot discussion since Molten Core/BWL was a thing.
Maybe you haven’t played as long as I have but I distinctly remember playing Warsong Gulch in the true OG Vanilla (circa early/mid 2005) when our scrappy team of dungeon crawlers would get steamrolled in blues by the Horde guild on my server that was doing raid content.
Now we have M2+ to M6+ which is sort of in a bad design position.
So, they want to correct that… reasonable enough… but now we have the Delvers yelling “we don’t want to be forced in m+ content”.
There’s been one variation of this after another ever since the game started. It was really an issue for pve vs pvp gear. Now, after years of rearranging the deck chairs they have finally solved the problem with different ilevel tracts.
I mean, if people just wanna raid log, farm M+, or just do delves for the week and then pick flowers, or whatever, they should just say so. But this notion that “everything is fine” is just gaslighting.
Everything is fine except delves, which are extremely overrewarding. Far as anyone can tell, this is by design to pad numbers there. The easy solution to that issue is tuning them to be a threat, or dropping their rewards to match their level.
So we can use that certain comfy iron curtain on the raids as well? No more spymaster, grief torch, gem, tier and what not fiascos?
What most ppl do not want is:
being forced to do x content just to stay relevant in y content → better balancing among endgame modes AND especially items
having their ilvl drastically reduced in various forms of content to the point that you need different gear for each pve mode (this is where the issue is, it should only be tuned as much a necessary to make it slightly worse than the native gear of the endgame, but still very much viable)
blizzard moving the goalpost every single expansion in this decade; thats where most of the backlash comes
I don’t know bro, I’ve got a life and a lot has happened since then. I think I was raiding nighthold at the time I was doing the mage tower. Maybe it was tomb?
And in all honesty, I stopped raiding somewhere along the way in Legion, but I forget exactly when.
But the point is, the mage tower for paladin tank, when done at an ilevel that was when that was fresh content, it was harder than any tanking I did before or since then. It just took a lot of precision and no mistakes. Yes, there were classes/specs that could cheese OG mage tower but there were many that couldn’t.
And the bigger point is that solo, small group, large group content call all be made harder or easier depending on the tuning/scaling/mechanics.
The only thing unique to raiding is dealing with all the headaches/drama that a lot of immature people bring to the game.
No, given the drop in M+ this expansion (because people can do delves instead) and the constant whining from M+ players about “people are doing delves, Blizzard you have to force people back into M+” I think it’s pretty clear that most people just want to stop doing M+.
