sounds super fun and not adding to the unnecessarily bloated systems that modern WoW is comprised of at all.
Itâs people who want THEIR favorite game mode to get the special treatment where they can bypass other game modes.
Been playing since Jan 2005 here and I can tell you that of every attempt at a solution regarding PvP and PvE gear conflicts has failed other than the idea that idea that PvP and PvE ilevels need to be separated.
Not saying the modern way is perfect, but it has solved many of the issues that plagued this part of the gearing conundrum.
That said, PvPâs problems arenât about this portion of the gearing system.
I honestly donât know what PvPâs problems are these days other than to me, it just doesnât feel fun anymore. I donât know why. I used to PvP a lot, but I donât do it.
However, I am glad that people who take PvP and PvE seriously donât have to do the other forms of content they donât like. In some instances in the past, they had to. Perhaps you havenât been playing the game long enough to know?
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I donât want separate ilevels for each form of content, but I do think they should consider some way to have future challenges for things like appearance and mounts and such set up in a way that puts players on an equal footing for the challenge instead of being more of a gimmie for players with the best gear as most challenges have been in the game thus far.
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ironically. I agree with this statement.
the issue is, no delves are more difficult than mythic raiding. so practically itâs impossible.
the highest delves are a ton easier than mythic raiding.
I already have gear for three different specs with their own enchants, gems, trinkets, preferred stats, and Emblishments for one character.
I do not want do carry around nine of these.
Why is my Delve gear so low? How am I supposed to do my content without the ilevel? And why would anyone play other content if they just get the same piece form everything?
Thatâs what the Catalyst is for.
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More like why canât we just get gear vendors. This crap is getting old now. Canât wait for PoE 2.
PoE might be bloated to the moon, but at least it doesnât gate power from you.
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In your opinion, is this something to be celebrated and encouraged, or something to be avoided?
Right now, I canât tell.
Personally, I think my suggestion doesnât really favor any type of gameplay as each type would be in its own lane and wouldnât trivialize anything elsewhere.
Isnât that good?
I suggested it the other day all game modes should be given the pvp treatment so you canât play one to bypass the other.
All the raid boosters immediately got mad at the suggestion that loot in delves and m+ no longer made inferior to raids. Then they gaslight the threads into trying to argue that no one wants m+ or delves and it IS fine if things are made unfair.
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Nah. Also if anything pvp needs to go back to giving good pve gear so people are encouraged to push rating.
Mythic track gear should also be from 12s not just 10s 
The raid boosters were throwing a big stink at the suggestion m+ have myth track in it. Itâs why I proposed the PvP treatment for all game modes so it feels fair and they canât use the âweâre doing m+ so we can raid, when we donât want m+â excuse.
A nice thought for balance but people will hate it. Too heavy handed for the problem it takes away what people have earned. Itâs an attempt to balance gear but the wrong approach.
PvP with higher scaling is a good example of doing the opposite and being somewhat well received, though not without problems either.
Problem is progression feels fake for delves and m+ feels bad right now, and Blizzard is losing tons of players.
Also m+ being about collecting your weekly lootbox for myth track ruins its esports aspect, and is THE defining reason why people bellyached over making m+ harder/more annoying.
Iâm looking for better solutions, but itâs looking pretty grim.
Theoretically, delves could scale to a point where the would be more difficult than current mythic raiding (for the simple fact that mythic raiding has one difficulty level). Just because maybe they currently donât doesnât mean the canât.
OG mage towers is a good example of very hard soloable content (esp if done at a low ilevel) and they didnât even scale.
So, are you in favor of delves and commensurate gear scaling past that of current mythic raiding?
I am personally NOT arguing for this. I am just arguing that different types of content should have different progression tracks so that the overall systems are less janky than they are right now.
M+ is currently very janky, as admitted by the Devs, because of the very issues of how delves, m+, and raiding interoperate.
I am trying to solve that problem.
As long as delves do not have parity with other endgame modes, regarding the ilvl it can drop and the difficulty scale, I think we should omit it from this, but later it may be included if they figure out those.
Also the delta seems to be way too much.
The entire point of separating PvE gearing is to ensure that the absolute best gear for the given endgame mode ALWAYS is what drops from that certain endgame mode.
Raid gear should remain very close to the max m+ bis gear and vice versa.
Meaning, ilvl should actually remain largely unchanged, and rather the overperforming items should just be penalized slightly when used outside of their origin endgame.
Or we could do it on an alternative way and hide a portion of their power behind certain equip effects that only trigger in certain situations / places.
I think this would make more sense, it would be overall easier to understand and feel generally better than the first option.
Making everyone hoard multiple full sets is not the way to go and is not even necessary to fix the original issue of raid gear being superior in m+ and rarely m+ gear being better than raid gear.
Actually it would feel horrible to enter with 633 mythic track items into a delve and have it downscaled to 610, because it literally erases any and all of the remnants of progression or player power.
This is exactly what we should be carefully avoiding, if we are to make changes to the gearing.
1.) In my proposal the idea is that it doesnât matter how much a piece of gear can scale in any lane of PvE content because it doesnât scale in the other forms of content unless upgraded in that form of content. So, you could have a 639 Delve iLevel piece that only has 619 Raid ilevel. But it wouldnât trivialize raid content in any way because only the 619 Raid iLevel would only apply once you stepped inside a raid instance. Each venue of instanced content would only use the iLevel of the appropriate content track.
2.) As far as delta goes, thatâs just a tuning issue. My OP suggestion is just a theoretical example. You can also create floors for iLevels in gear when a piece drops so that gear is not useless when stepping into other venues.
3.) I used to kick around the idea of having equip effects kick in different environments. I am not opposed to this idea. Kind of like a special armor penetration specific to a type of content. However, I think just having seperate ilevel tracks would be better and much easier to tune and maintain.
What OP is suggesting is how it should be done, yes.
Iâm one of MANY, MANY people who hates doing M+, but is forced to do it because Blizzard tunes the entire gameâs content around the assumption that youâre doing it. As we keep seeing, most people who do M+ hate doing it. I know many people, personally, who have quit WoW since M+ was introduced, specifically because they do not have the time to spend 2-3 nights a week doing M+, just so they can do the things they want.
The game needs an Iron Curtain around M+, just like it has with PvP gear since S2 Shadowlands. M+ gear should only work in M+, and so it should be with other content as well (people who donât like raiding shouldnât have to raid, either).
And the BORING AND UNIMAGINATIVE STOCK RESPONSE I always get when I bring this up, is âbut my bag space! i donât want to have to carry different sets of gear!â
You wouldnât have to. The gear should adjust based on how high youâve gone, in that content.
So when you raid, if youâve gotten farther in the raid, your gear is higher in the raid. But not in M+, unless (and as you do) you go higher in M+.
This removes the age-old âpeople have to do things they hate, to do the things they likeâ factor, which has been killing this game.
I only speak for myself saying one of my main reasom for not doing pvp is because I donât want to have to farm a full new set of gear, and you want that constraint to be applied to every other part of game.
I started late TBC, thank you.
I still think remix had the best gearing system WoW has ever had.
everyone got the same max level gear, then we got gems for stats, and a legendary cloak that got more powerful as we did any content.
the hardest raids gave the most upgrades, but the World only players could grind their way to the same power levels.
There was no âirrelevantâ content
everything mattered
even flying thru floaty golden orbs if thats all the time you had or all you wanted to do.
I vote we use the remix gearing system for retail.
There isnât anything better.
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