Gear shouldnt matter in pvp

PVP Battlegrounds
61

You (like others) said that gear progression is a characteristic of rpgs/mmos, thats true but many rpgs (and mmos) are pve only. In fact the pvp aspect of rpgs is a new thing in rpgs history.
Obviously gear progression is the essence of rpgs.
The problem is extending this to pvp, it shouldnt.
I gave as an example FF14, well, gear does matter in FF14, just not on pvp.
Like all pvp should be, as they are, in essence, a sport.

Cant agree, pvp comunity in wow is very low (as stated by the very devs on interviews) as oposite of many other pvp games where you can just log in, play and have fun all day long.

Could sugest you are being a little sociopath, masochist or naiv if you like this system.

You cant say you are a good pvper if u win someone with worst gear than you.
But you can show your itl to your friends, theres a diference there.

That!

Well, i can live with that!

Thats not true when the top ladder have 30% more hp/damage than you.
Wouldnt be true if the dierence were 1% too.
(actually you can upgrade conquest gear depending on your rank [not mentioning pve gearing]).

Do you compete with elite athletes and who wins get biggest muscle as prize?
No, you train alone in an academy and get bigger muscle.
Or compete with people with similar hability.
The advantage in the virtual pvp would be the players hability they got by practicing with people with the same bracket as them.

Do you fell you are a superior pvper when you win people of 197 itl?
Would you feel good competing with someone with 220 itl they got doing pve?
Just asking.
Its not a question of time.

Come on… wow /2 chat and finder are flooded with ppl selling that…

Exactly.

Exactly

Problem is, i just want to do pvp (non-rated BGs).
But i did and am actually 201 itl, and everyday i see 220itl ppl over there…

Who says that never done a m+ on group finder or a normal+ raid…

LOL

Never got anything usefull from a World Boss, no item whatsoever in SL so far…

That was a templates problem, not no-gear problem.
If fact they couldnt balance it, dota can balance 80+ heroes but blizz couldnt balance 12 classes lol

62

Do you go into raids and complain about people that have superior gear to you?

Do you demand that your gear should be the same because you showed up, and that the only deciding factor in who has the highest dps should be who follows the rotation better?

Because that’s what you’re asking, but for PvP

I fully expect a post demanding equal pve gear if this is the argument you’re going with

1 Like
63

The game is supposed to be fun though and you are comparing PVE/PVP and humans versus AI.

The AI doesn’t care what gear you have, but in PVP, if it’s a massive player power variance, it’s almost pointless, and nonsensical, unless of course you just want to feel safe when you fight casual players who have only geared doing what they enjoy.

Let’s try not to also mix up “being able to do” things versus choosing what is fun and sure , those who do rated / harder PVP deserve advantages, but not insurmountable ones based on just the gear / ilevel.

64

I beat mythic raiders in rbgs all the time, so yes. I don’t queue into 190ilevel players. I don’t queue random bgs. Again, this narrative of 220+ players queueing bgs all day is likey exaggerated and those that are are god awful pve players who you can beat by skill alone regardless of gear disparity. If you can’t beat someone backpeddling and clicking their trinket with their mouse, I don’t know what to tell you. You’re not queueing into elite/glad gear players in a random bg. They queue ranked content.

65

Well perhaps you are right “generally speaking” but not always. There are indeed rated bulliys in random BGs. I had one guy emote spamming away like a champion and I managed to blow him up (195 me, 212 him) and then a few minutes later he logged onto an alt to arena rating shame me :slight_smile:

There are also some teams that are premade and it’s an auto lose but not always. You can try and it works on both factions, kind of luck of the draw. Today I went 2/2 on the brawl/BG but somedays takes a few more haha.

66

I’d argue trying to out perform a mythic raider with casual blues is an “insurmountable” advantage for them

You’re asking to be on the same footing as someone that invested their time and energy where you did not.

Blizzard tried templates. They were hated. They were removed. Gear matters again, and if you want an edge, no one is stopping you from getting gear to better yourself

67

This is basically guild wars 2 pvp.

1 Like
68

That is your opinion. Blizzard disagreed. And returned gear progression. Sorry. Well constructed post but in the end they just don’t see it your way and have the analytics to keep them convinced.

70

See, this post is a perfect example of someone engineering the narrative to make it seem everyone expects to be on the same footing. If you check my posts, I 100% think gear should matter. Just not to the point that makes engaging in “casual content” to be pointless. The game is supposed to be fun for everyone.

Sure give rateds and mythic raiders their advantages but I am sorry if you feel that you should win by “gear default” then you are simply scared to lose to or are enjoying easy wins because you don’t actually enjoy challenging PVP.

71

This is an MMORPG game, so you can’t deny Gearing progress,if you wanna play PVP without gearing progress, there’s tons of pvp games out there.

1 Like
72

What you are talking have no logic.

That have no logic also.

Read the entire discussion before posting.

For those who dont know how to quote, just select the text you want and click on the double arrow simbol next to “Reply” in the right side of the text u want to quote.
Or click the popup that apears when u select.

73

These types of players are very uncommon now in my experience. This isn’t vanilla. Most people I see have at least those fundamentals down. The biggest problem I see is with inexperienced players not using their defensive cooldowns to prevent a death even when they are up and available.

74

Pretty common in this forum to see the condescending assumptions that everyone is “really bad” instead of just "bad’ haha as it make them feel like they are “good”. I mean sure, some people forget, or don’t execute, and are not cozy but it’s hilarious to see some of the stuff that gets posted simply to make forum posters feel like bigshots…

75

What’s your definition of “new”? PvP has been in MMORPGs long before WoW even, so I wouldn’t call something over two decades old new.

Ultimately we’re at an impasse. You don’t care about character progression in PvP while many people do, myself included. Fortunately, Blizzard tested this and saw that the majority of people want meaningful character progression in PvP. So, as far as “should” or “shouldn’t” goes, character progression should remain important to PvP.

76

My entire point is that there shouldn’t be any difference in power between conquest geared players, I think you misread my post because I’m agreeing there shouldn’t be a power gap like that.

There should be no difference between the top ladder players and bottom ladder in terms of item level if they both have epic PvP sets, just like MoP and WoD. It undermines the entire concept of fair competition and turns into a rich get richer system which I fundamentally disagree with because that’s a bad system.

1 Like
77

Computer RPG (like d&d) started in the 70s, so lets imagine the history of computer RPGs have around 50 years.
I imagine the first pvp rpg came around mid 90s? Thats half.
Not mentioning RPG before computers and videogames, tabletop RPGs…
My statement was that pvp is something within rpg, a facet of computer rpg, new, considering the history of this game gender.

Completely agree with u, but i think the ideal would be no gear at all.

78

I don’t mind regular random and epic BGs having gear matter. But ranked and Arena? It absolutely shouldn’t. It makes no sense to tie higher ilvl pvp gear to a mode you need the higher ilvl gear to be good at.

1 Like
79

If this is the case; class also shouldn’t matter, and we should only have one class in WoW to keep things as equal as possible.

Nothing will ever be equal in a game like this and gear is an equalizer for that.

Gear gives some players playing the less flavorful classes of the month a chance to compete competitively in rated games.

Imagine if you have two players at the same skill level and the same gear level, one playing the best class of that season, and the other playing the worst class of that season.

It’s obvious that the player playing the weaker class will lose 8 to 9 times out of 10 despite skill (this is only to prove class imbalance is a bigger issue).

Proper gearing helps to keep matches from taking thousands of years, or ending before they start.

If you’ve come back to the game after a long break and faced a 1200 arena team in full gear you will know what I mean lol.

A better idea than removing gear is to go back to requiring a certain rating for each piece of gear.

Example: 1200 for bracers, 1700 for cape, 1800 for wep, etc…

This keeps a nice flow through the different competitive brackets instead of fighting 5-minute battles every single game because everyone has gear, or in your suggestion: everyone is equal.

Requiring certain rating doesn’t hinder players from succeeding, it keeps you in a bracket that best fits you, and helps you to meaningfully advance in skill and power as you move your way through each bracket.

Trust me, if someone puts in the effort in a system like this; you will succeed.

Case in point: Classes will never be equal which defeats the idea of a gearless competitive game and the same principle applies to giving gear out despite skill level.

The only sure way to get as close to balance as possible is road blocking players from gear they haven’t earned by proper gear advancement (Notice: Dungeons, raid finder, normal raid, heroic raid, mythic raid/M+).

Not sure when earning gear became a bad thing in a game all about end game progression.

2 Likes
80

so much cope

81

You just necro’d a thread from a year ago…

1 Like