Still yet to see anyone who is anti-gdkp actually be good at the game.
The correlation grows stronger.
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Why don’t you go out and level?
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You asked me for a reason that doesn’t include ease and/or convenience. I gave you what you asked for. It’s literally the opposite of disingenuous.
Whether or not the GDKP is forming for that guy is irrelevant since it has nothing to do with whether an individual wants to participate. To use my example again, my guild didn’t form the raid for those 2 guys to death roll but they wanted to do that behavior in that raid because they liked the behavior regardless of how the raid was formed.
Where did I say he wasn’t doing it for gear? Actually, that’s exactly what I said in my response to you. You said take away the gold pot and I responded with he could just want to buy the gear. But the pseudo deterministic gear and the gold are just 2 out of a dozen reasons why people participate. This is my overall point. Are they more compelling than others? Sure. But the others are still valid and at least should get some recognition.
Yeah and it was a really bad one. Bit of a stretch. One guy doing a GDKP as a buyer because they got nothing better to do other than half hearted gambling doesn’t negate GDKPs existing on the foundation of ease and convenience. That guy is an exception to the rule assuming they exist at all which I highly doubt.
And my point is people do GDKPs because they are easier and convenient than most other raid options because they are - and I don’t even care about that. Its when you tell that to a GDKP’r and they tell you its not about ease or convenience its about how inconvenient guild and standard pug raiding is. Which, of course, is the saying the same exact thing.
Its the greedy servicing the lazy but you cant say that. Its noblemen helping the disadvantaged out of the kindness of their hearts so guild and normal pug raiding is basically evil. Read their posts.
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Not really. I know a ton of people that really like that bidding process. Entire industries are built off it.
This is true but it was never meant to negate the foundation in the first place because you’re using 2 broad terms that encompass many factors at once. I’m suggesting other factors exist. It seems like you’re recognizing that but dismissing them as not being foundational which is fair.
Well, yeah. I think they are easier and more convenient than guild raids for sure if you want to raid on several characters but that’s true of any pug system. Are there even pugs that do anything besides MS/OS SR and GDKP? Can’t recall ever seeing another loot system. Imagine a pug loot council xd
But without GDKP how can we get easy access to mountains of goldbuyer gold and no risk of punishment?
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Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. It’s got nothing on actual evidence which I’m more interested in. Exceptions to the rule are just that but kudos to you for actually discussing concepts instead of just raging at non believers.
You’re right. However GDKP is as much a run of the mill pug as it is a DKP system. Technically its a pug but fundamentally its something else. Its somewhere in between formal raid and chat channel pug. There are some major differences that put it into its own category.
All pug raids are easier and more convenient than a long term commitment to a dedicated raid guild, GDKP included. The similarities end there though. RNG aside, it goes a few steps further to make things easier for buyers like doing the heavy lifting (with near guaranteed clears) and eliminating /roll as the mechanism for winning drops. The buyers also get a nice payout for doing something they were probably going to do anyway, in one form or another.
I could go on but Im not telling anyone anything they don’t already know. My main contention is don’t tell me you enjoy the perks GDKPs offer over normal pugs and raid guilds and then blame MS/OS SR pugs (and to a lesser extent, guilds) for your entitlement.
Actual evidence is rather hard to come by when you’re talking about abstract socio economic paradigms in a video game where the publisher doesn’t release any hard numbers and hasn’t for a decade. Insert literally every RMT discussion here. I’ll stand by the fact/opinion, whatever you want to label it as, the behavior I described exists and is valid.
All of this is largely true.
Circling back to your original point I think GDKPs are easier and more convenient only if you have gold and/or good parses. I think that’s where they get the entitlement from. With that being said, their reasoning is sound in regards to why they prefer GDKPs over MS (going to shorthand this from now on) pugs. Given the opportunity who wouldn’t want to have bad rng protection? I made an analogy in a different thread when someone asked why GDKPs killed off MS pugs. If you gave people a button to let them hit max level immediately instead of leveling, how many people would hit that button? If you had enough gold and you can participate in a system that will reward you to a base degree every week compared to a system where you walk away with nothing most weeks, which one would you pick?
Bad RNG protection in a game that has actively revolved around RNG for 20 years is a super strong incentive and, in my humble opinion, only exists as such because of a fundamental flaw to the game as a whole. I genuinely do wonder what would happen if you gave WoW a deterministic PvE loot system like FFXIV has. My bet is GDKPs would vanish.
If you’re terrible at the game you won’t get into a GDKP yet you can get into a dad guild that raids.
Gdkps are not easier.
Ignorant people think if you buy gold youre automatically in which is not the case. People dont normally give free rides to bad players who just want a payout, and if they do, you’ll eventually not get invited to any
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Eeehhhh it definitely helps your case especially if the content is easy enough to the point where you can effectively sleep walk through it which tends to be the case in classic most of the time. During progression I agree though.
I distinctively remember pming someone my class and spec and he was like eh I might have a spot and then I told him my budget and he linked the discord lmao. Yeah, the amount of gold you have is definitely relevant. Is there nuance? Sure, but it is a big factor.
Sure it can happen especially later when the content doesn’t matter, but most groups are going to want a good player as well for a better faster run.
So I’ve found in these situations deep into the expansion/tier it’s also often the case where a good player also has a large amount of gold (by virtue of doing a bunch of GDKPs already or whatever). I don’t think the GDKP leaders really care about shaving 10 minutes off their clear time but I do think that given the option between a trash can and a known quantity and they both say have above X amount of gold, they take the known quantity.
The thing is its not an argument anyone can make.
You cant say GDKPs are easier because when a GDKPs are the norm that is what most people run.
It’s easier and more convenient because most people would rather raid with a gold payout opposed to not.
Of course it’s more convenient when most groups are running that.
It’s like right now it’s easier to find a boosting dungeon grp than a normal grp. Like obviously it is lol because that’s the norm right now.
That’s what I was driving at with my wall of text and my button analogy.
I then went on to explain why that is the case and what would happen if you removed the real source of the problem, gear RNG.
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Yeah like Id rather hangout with my friends if I had an option to leave their house with money opposed to not.
Obviously!
gear RNG is not a problem 
let me guess, you enjoy the game known colloquially as retail
But I guess the overall point is that opportunity isn’t available to a lot of people. I should give it a shot though to test my theory on how much gold matters. Resub my cata account and farm up like 300k gold or whatever and see if I can get into a mid gdkp. I bet you I could.
I guess my hot take is that gear RNG is one of the worst parts of the game but since you disagree I think I’m on solid ground.
let me guess, you think they should add personal loot to classic