Peeporiot, the GDKP system seems far more in line with the Chinese server raid culture.
There are differences between the regions and that raid culture is a very noticable one.
It sounds a lot like the pro-GDKP group is arguing in favor of the Chinese raid systems and that Blizz should adopt that for the US servers. Is this correct?
This guy is a 
no arguments just ramblings of someone who lost.
He doesn’t care about the economy he’s only out for himself.
Both him and Bergelmir are out to get GDKP’s restored without a proper solution. Don’t listen to facts or arguments, once proven wrong. They scream no evidence approach even though they have no evidence nor logical reasoning.
I was on the fence about GDKP’s, but you two have done it you moved me. I hope they never come back.
Here’s to P4 without GDKP’s and winning!!!
GDKP isn’t coming back to SoD.
Their arguments though are kinda interesting in a head scratch way. The system they seem to want does have a close analog in the real world. My guess is they have not thought it through, but it is exactly those alternate systems they are shilling for.
Nobody said this. There are costs to operate the bot farms. They can scale supply infinitely to meet demand.
Bots are infinitely scalable, the gold per hour increases as inflation increases, driving prices lower and lower. Has nothing to do with demand.
I’m saying bots can be scaled up to meet any demand, which is true.
Its not true, and I’ve explained why multiple times. Raising gold prices will get you immediately undercut by others that are scaling bots instead. There is endless supply of gold to be farmed to meet any demand.
You didnt disprove my thesis.
See above
Nope, try again.
You keep saying that, but my argument remains. Your’s doesnt.
Now you get it!! This is why the prices will always be marginally above costs.
Its not infinite supply on hand, but infinite ability to scale the bots at the same cost to meet demand.
Ok business I get it, costs for bots. I understand this as to profit margins. If you don’t sell for a lose. So you said they can scale supply infinitely to meet demand. So what is the the supply, it is gold. What is the demand it is gold. Therefore you are saying infinite gold.
If you have a limited supply of gold. They will never have infinite. Bots get banned and people buy gold. If you’re saying gold per hour increases as inflation increases, you are talking about selling things to get gold. Inflation causes more gold buying because you need more of it to buy stuff. Therefore the demand is higher because you need more gold to buy things. It feeds into itself if anything it keeps gold higher because people need more of it.
You’re literally telling me that no matter the demand the bots can keep up? If this is the case then gold prices shouldn’t fluctuate.
So lets look at this. If Farmer B can scale infinite bots and keep prices lower Farmer A will leave. When Farmer B has a monopolized market they can raise prices. I’d argue that both are there and when demand starts pouring in prices change. I’d assume they ping pong back in forth. Staying at one price forever makes no sense what so ever.
You can’t tell me how gold prices work in wow when I have a graph from the people that do it. You are literally saying you are wrong because I said so. It lends nothing to the argument. You still haven’t justified anything. I pointed out that what you said doesn’t make sense as far as demand is concerned. I pointed out that if what you said were true certain things would reflect that. They haven’t because the graph shows otherwise.
You repeating this doesn’t change the fact you are wrong. I show you but you refuse to see. That’s why I say I’m done here. Even when I try to cut the conversation and move on you keep replying. I’ve come to the conclusion that neither of us will change our minds no matter what. You want to be the child on the playground to get the last word and declared they won.
See this makes no sense. You can undercut to a certain operating point. This doesn’t change the fact that once demand pours in Farmer B can keep up. Eventually either they’ll change price or dump their gold on hand. People will go buy the gold from Farmer A for slightly more due to gold on hand and not waiting. This will continue until they dump stock or keep stock and raise prices. It doesn’t follow a model to making money. People will pay more money to get what they want faster. There will be a point where they’d limit or cap gold to people based on deliverable. None of this changes the fact that they’ll start to raise prices on gold on hand. Because guess what, people want stuff as soon as possible. They don’t want to wait two weeks out so they’ll be able to raise their prices eventually, it’ll go back in forth. Your infinite scaling will never work and if it did prices for gold would NEVER fluctuate ever. The weird thing is they do so in short that doesn’t hold water. Check the graph man that’s all I can say.
Their arguments are against reality. They have no proof stating that GDKP’s were not the reason for the poor economy. They are upset that it got caught it the crossfire and I can see that. Unfortunately I keep explaining to them that if Blizzard see cons out weigh pros it’ll never come back. There is a reason it’s not back yet and Blizzard needs to tell them that.
I am certain Blizz is analyzing the results of the ban. I am also certain Blizz has access to a lot more information than the forum warriors. GDKP is not coming back to SoD, I am certain. I’d bet gold on it.
What happens in the future, after SoD, who knows.
But again, from a raid culture stand point, they (the pro-GDKP’ers) are arguing for a system that has not been as present in NA and EU servers as in others. What culture Blizz wants in its game(s) will affect what happens to GDKP in the future. I do not think GDKP, or those alternate raid systems, are what Blizz wants ultimately. That is just a guess, though, so who knows? We’ll see what happens.
Blizzard has what kind of data?
If blizzard had any data on rmt they would ban the people commiting the rmt.
GDKP is literally the most popular pug loot system, which is why the antis wanted it gone because it becomes the only way to pug anything.
Youre literally trying to say it has not been as present? Like what?
The only big difference in those other cultures is some of them use it as their guild loot system and im guessing the majority of US guilds use loot council.
That being said the pug scene when gdkps are allowed is mostly all gdkps for pugs because its the most popular, id argue youre all in the minority of not wanting it.
In the US the majority of players raid in a guild but use gdkps on their alts in pugs. Since most guilds have a raid schedule.
For example my guild raids tue/wed and we have 1 main raid team, so what do i do if i wanna raid on my mage as my main but i also enjoy raiding on an Ele shaman?
My guild doesnt have a 2nd raid team so i have to pug, but since i can clear the content that most people cant i dont want to really group with them in a pug setting, i want people who can clear what i can clear.
This is where organized gdkp discords come in, im not getting the Anti gdkp player who stands in fire and cant handle 2+ mechanics, im getting players who are good because the discord vets those players.
You can say whatever you want but the fact is gdkp is the most popular way to pug a raid.
Yes, this is possible for a fixed cost per bot. Of course, they wouldnt pay that price unless there is demand.
Without GDKP what are people spending the gold they bought on? Thats right, the things the bots are selling. So they farm the gold, sell it to a player for money, then the player turns around and gives it back to them for consumes, boe epics, materials, etc. On and on like this. Inflation just changes the amount of gold changing hands. Did you actually just claim that gold inflation causes the price of gold to go up? 
Yes, they can always keep up. Prices go down because inflation is a global economic concept and has been rampant in SoD with or without bots. The price will always fall over time due to inflation, and not becase of demand.
No, Farmer A would lower prices or not raise them to begin with.
Your graph supports my thesis.
You keep trying to poke holes in my argument, unsuccessfully. You want me to simply accept your flawed argument. No thanks.
You’re done because you’re defeated. Stop claiming prices are proof of your thesis.
Yes, they can keep up by spinning up more bots. Is there short term volatility? Of course, like in any market, but that’s not what we’re talking about. If demand increases production will increase because production is an infinitely scaling fixed price in a bot economy.
You cant prove something was not the cause, you can only prove it was, which you haven’t. “Prove you aren’t a witch!”
I agree with this. The gold is taken out of the market place and stored. This causes a deflation in our economy. It inflates gold stock piles causing gold to drop. Once people starting buying gold bringing it back into the economy the opposite happens. Gold prices go up the gold piles deflate and economy inflates. If you opened up GDKP’s this would happen. We’d be in an inflated economy by which no one has ever see. I agree the incursions didn’t help at all. GDKP’s will open the flood gates. GDKP’s should never come back ever. Thanks for pointing that out.
AH prices don’t go down in the inflated economy. People would have to do more RMT’s for money or go farm gold. As long as people are buying gold at a certain rate they will sell it at that rate. Now low demand for RMT’s or bots having a surplus of gold would cause lower prices. They need to move the gold so they will undercut back in forth. If they can’t move it, it’ll continue until profit min cap. So it’s a race to the bottom. That is why I think low demands is causing low prices in the gold market.
So if farmer B is the lowest, they would get all the business. If bots can supply infinite gold then then farmer B will not have to worry about farmer A. The example I’m giving is that farmer A cannot lower prices below farmer B as they would lose money. So farmer B has effectively priced farmer A out of the market. Why would farmer A stick around if they cannot sell gold?
This is makes no sense at all. You have a farmer B that can supply the demand for an entire server. Why is the farmer A around? There has to be competition or it’ll be a monopolized market. You say no it’s not A will drop their prices. Well as it’s a race to the bottom someone will win. If B reaches the lowest price to make a profit A is now priced out of the market. There is no reason for A to operate at that point if what you said is true. It makes zero sense. If what you were saying was fact there would be one gold seller dominating everything. This is the problem I have with your argument.
Actually to be fair, I’ve been quite successful. You have just flipped it on it’s face with, “Oh you have no evidence.” If you disagree that’s fine doesn’t mean you’re right. Doesn’t me my arguments are flawed. No thanks.
I state this because I see that we cannot come to an agreement. It’s not me being defeated. It’s me making an observation that no matter what I tell you, you have your mind made up. Stop claiming evidence against you? The price graph follows demand. You have failed to prove me wrong.
You can prove something was not the cause. They do it all the time in court cases, so another false statement by you. Process of elimination is the acceptable term 
. Prove to me that you’re not into RMT’s. Once again I was stating a fact. Your arguments fall short. Only thing you can do is spin in circles.
GDKP ain’t coming back to SoD Drinknblink. I think this has been established.
What Blizz determines is healthy for the game long term based on culture they want to encourage with regards to raiding, we’ll see. But there are servers (or will be again), beyond Classic Era and Cata, where GDKP and GDKP-like systems are everywhere. Where the system is pay for play.
I’d imagine Blizz will look at Cata raiding and Classic Era rading, they will look at those other servers when the come back and they will decide what will happen to GDKP long term.
Again, we’ll see. Until then, seeing the couple/few pro-GDKP ramblers go on and on and on and on about it is, if nothing else, entertaining. I don’t think y’all will get what ya want. But, it is in Blizz’ court. So, again, we’ll see.
That said, I hope y’all enjoy the game and have fun with it, even if I may not agree with the direction you want to take it.
Oh idc if it comes back to sod im only here to correct the missinformation about gdkps, which seems to be a lot floating around.
SOD is dead.
I quit sod 3 months ago with everyone else.
You can fit all of SOD on a single server now lmfao.
I think you are basing population on raid logging numbers. I have no idea what percentage of players raid, but I doubt it is very high. It will be higher in Retail because Retail has LFR. I’m not disputing your numbers, though.
I am pointing out that Blizz decision will be based on culture that they think is good for the game.
They will have decide where the game goes. I am pretty certain the direction the GDKP crowd is headed is a pay for play one more like what was seen on the servers in China. If Blizz wants to head in that direction, it’s their game.
WOW is already pay to play, what are you saying?
lol well you are correct about that! I pay monthly eh? Good come back.
Anyway, whatever decision they make will have consequences.
I hope they decide well.
I think they already see their dead game.
Well, here’s to hoping they figure it out in a positive way that keeps the game rollin. I still have fun and have for a long, long time.
Edit: I am off to level leatherwiorking (again). I’ll leave this to the great debaters. Hope y’all have fun whataver ya do!
I mean i believe if they keep raiding as brain dead as ST raids are then no gdkps is fine, but once you make raids fun and hard then i think the pug scene would need gdkps.
Trade chat pugs are literally filled with the worst players in the game.
What are you talking about? The thing that causes gold stockpiles and deflates gold circulating in the AH economy is GDKP. People save gold to trade among other GDKPers. You keep making arguments that are the exact opposite of reality. Are you AI?
Dude, you are so close to understanding. It is a race to the bottom, meaning the margins are very small. That means they can’t reduce prices or they will LOSE money. So gold prices are, say it with me, not a reflection of demand. Gold production is what is influenced by demand. Meaning more or less bots. Not gold prices.
If farmer A cant compete with Farmer B’s cost structure then yes they will stop their operation. But that’s not the scenario. We’re talking about a sudden spike in demand. If you want to now pretebd the cost structures are different and Farmer B raises prices, then Farmer C will simply undercut them instead. This is a global economy, not a binary one. I thought that was obvious.
Competition will depend on costs as well as the ability to fund the capex and opex. For example, an operation in Vietnam might have lower costs, but lack the funding to scale. So they could undercut others, but only up to a certain volume. But again this is a global economy. The larger the opportunity the greater the chance someone will step into the ring and compete. This isn’t the only small margin business in the world and they dont become monopolized as you’re suggesting.
My disagreement isn’t why I’m right, my arguments are. Which I’ve very consistently defended against your attacks.
I actually did, several times. I am defending my thesis in this very post.
In court the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. What point are you making? “Prove you arent doing RMTs” Thats impossible. You can only prove a negative with criteria involved. For example, “Prove you didnt purchase RMT gold with this credit card.” Easy, show the statement. You can’t prove something broadly didn’t happen, only that it did happen in one or many cases. That’s why facts appear as positive, not negative.
Look man, you’re not gonna win this debate because you’re simply wrong and I’ve shown you why dozens of times. Maybe you’re used to winning debates even when you’re wrong (that’s very possible), but its not gonna happen with me.
Haven’t you guys learned by now? It’s clearly not coming back.