see, this is where you are wrong and this is where everything unravels, you said something that is directly provable
gdkp was banned when p2 launched, and p2 launched with…drumroll reduced players, to the point where it never recovered
p1 week 8: 405k players
p2 week 1: 189k players
Wrong. Since you refuse to read I’ll quote it for you.
the last gasps of a desperate man, the anti gdkper who admits “gdkps were unfortunately collateral damage”, the guy who can’t read graphs, the guy who doesn’t understand supply and demand, it all boiled down to name calling, he was so owned that he couldn’t help himself
“you are an rmter!”
“RETAIL PLAYER LOL”
“YOU DON’T EVEN PLAY THIS GAME”
pathetic really
How ironic 
When you can’t refute my dismantling of your only argument this is one option, I get it.
Yes, and I dismantled the gold price argument. You refuse to acknowledge that post and just keep saying gold prices, gold prices! I’ve made every effort to respond to each of your arguments and questions. This is just a bold faced lie.
I’ve laid out very detailed arguments, including one dismissing the gold price argument you’re making. You keep saying this, I keep responding in detail, and then you just say it again. Talk about circles… 
Conveniently leaving out which arguments you supposedly destroyed. Why don’t you try discrediting me on gold prices, since that seems to be what your viewpoint is based on. Oh, what’s right you can’t.
Here’s what I’ll say and agree to. First and foremost you’ve been one of the more reasonable people on here. At least you have some kind of forum and can concede things.
I agree with this statement. This is the direct portion of GDKP’s. I do not think it’s a small joke when you added the indirectly portion to it.
I’d point out that I have no problem with this statement. I would just like to add that doing transactions does pull some of the gold out of the economy through AH cuts, which helps.
You keep saying within GDKP’s. That is one side of the coin there are indirectly RMT’s because of GDKP’s. I answered your question. You wanted a specific % or number that can only be provided by data. I said the only people that could answer that are gold sellers or Blizzard. So therefore I cannot give you an exact number.
Your question alone was designed to lead in a way. Depending on the % I gave you at the end of the day I have no data for that % so I’m not going to make it up. At least you answered mine finally, but you only pointed out directly.
I agree that GDKP’s directly would increase RMT’s. I’d go further that indirectly through boosting, gearing, consuming, and professions tied to a new alt char for GDKP’s leads to more RMT’s as well. I don’t know by how much overall we can at least an increase.
The whole idea about this needs to be addressed by Blizzard. It’s been two phases worth without GDKP’s. Blizzard should at least give the player base data to show what has happened since GDKP’s. We all deserve and answer. Ping ponging back and forth make neither side more right or wrong. At the end of the day Blizzard has all the info. Like I said before I’m neither for nor against GDKP’s. I’ve only been pointing out what I see and why Blizzard more than likely hasn’t reversed the ban.
Drumroll people…give me one. Give me that beat. Phase 1 is week one of raiding in phase 2. Not all those alts were leveled. Look at the following weeks to see an increase due to…wait for it…drumroll please everyone together now…ALTS. I’m not denying people quit, but to say the it’s 1 for 1 is a bold face lie.
no you aren’t, you are just trying to tell me when they quit and saying they quit after the p1->p2 drop while the population was increasing? please make that make sense
they quit after the drop, so, the population went up, but people quit, and your source for that is, oh, nothing? because you couldn’t possibly know?
Hey man, you aren’t attempting to hold general conversations. I’ve devoted way to much of my time to you. You haven’t given me a shred of evidence to support your theories. We may of had some agreements but they were few and far between. I gave you things you could of easily agreed upon but it feels as if you have an axe to grind. The crazy thing is I’m indifferent about GDKP’s, all I was trying to show is reason as to why Blizzard hasn’t reversed. Trying to make you see what situation you all were thrown into.
It’s been two phases, they should release some form of data about all of this. I’m done speaking to you about this. We’d been going in circles and I’m getting dizzy.
I fear that if we get into indirects, I’d have to discuss various indirect things like how GDKPs stimulate the economy and other things too, so it’ll never end.
I clearly stated that I was only asking for your opinion, so it wasn’t meant to lead anywhere. I wanted to get an idea of what you think is fair, or what is enough to warrant a ban. I’ve already mentioned why I think GDKP RMT isn’t as high as most people think it is. For the most part, I don’t think it’s high enough to warrant an outright ban, but high enough to be regulated (ban GDKP advertisements from trade chat).
again, the only evidence you think that you have is that gold prices tanked, i really hope you don’t get into any science field ever
“the price of beef is way up after the ban on dishwasher powder”
this is evidence that dishwasher powder directly impacts the price of beef
“90% of the cows on the planet died during the dishwasher powder ban”
“Hey man, you aren’t attempting to hold general conversations. I’ve devoted way to much of my time to you.”
What does that even mean?
You’re literally replying to my post doing exactly this.
Lol. Clearly This is a classic tactic when you have nothing to stand on. Don’t take a position, attack other people’s positions, and when confronted just shapeshift your argument to evade that attack. Perhaps this is why when I cornered you into the gold prices argument you simply didn’t respond.
100% agree.
Because I’ve destroyed all of your arguments and self-proclaimed logic.
I guess this means you concede on gold prices being meaningful? That’s the thing you’ve been chanting over and over in this thread. Without it you have nothing left.
I mean if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. I also never directed that at you as you have been more open to conversations at first. You do have wild-eyed points, but at least their are points. Not name calling man, not me. I understand supply and demand, some of you don’t. I have read and compared the population and gold price over the course of SoD. When you sit there and blame it on population I know you’re lying. Pathetic is your grasp on reality.
If you paid any attention without an axe to grind we could of had a real conversation. You get upset when I point out reality and instead of agreeing you sling mud. This is the clamoring of someone who doesn’t like reality, that’s fine I get it.
At the end of the day Blizzard owes all of us data on the GDKP bans. Give us some kind info as to why things are still like this. Until then this just an echo chamber of ideas. No one is giving any kind of ground.
i think they should keep them private because they’ll likely do more harm than good and people should stop arguing as if they have evidence for their own positions, because they don’t
Time for me to go enjoy my Sunday.
You point to the last week of P1. There were alts still running in that week. P2 week 1 were highly dense with players and less alts. The following weeks it spiked due to alt leveling. I’m pointing at your graph and saying the following. The real big loses I care about were deep into P3 less alt dense as we move along. We have no real numbers to go off unfortunately. I’m under the reasoning that there will be less alts raiding as we drag into later phases. I’m saying while there was a solid player base at least in phase 2 gold prices started to fall. The big population fall off is in P3 and starts after Cata as content lacked. Way before that point gold prices were very very low at the end of April a month before Cata launch. You said population is the primary cause, I say the data you used says otherwiese.
The player based quit after Cata drop/launch allow me to clarify. You’re saying they quit sooner than Cata then drop started after Cata and kept going. I’m saying even before Cata gold prices were lower a month prior.
The drop I’m referring to is Cata lauch, I think we are talking past each other. There is a raiding graph that shows raiding decrease in SoD. That is the only evidence we have to anything close to population player base.
Yes, forbid me for looking at gold prices which are the source of RMT’s. That doesn’t make any sense. When you say things like that, I cannot take you seriously. That is not a valid argument in the least. Luckily waiting in the wings is your boy Bergelmir that is liking everything you say even if it makes no sense.
Explain to me how RMT’s and gold prices are not linked.
Thankfully for the both of us, I’m actually in STEM field. You on the other hand I highly doubt. I think we can conclude our discussion as you have fell upon your emotions as a response. You have left logic and reason out the window.
do you just make up stuff?
oh wait that’s exactly what you do
its so weird because you agree and then you disagree again in the next post, like here
“we have no numbers at all” ok he gets it, there’s no evidence
goes back to his original point, its like hes ai or something?
another example, he rewords my arguments against him like chatgpt and reposts them
RMT’s are linked to gold prices. Less gold being bought through RMT’s means less demand. Can still operate based on profit margins even if it’s small. RMT’s kick up demand soars and so do prices. That’s fine you don’t understand that, don’t expect you to. I explained it time after time. I’ve always been indifferent about GDKP’s but you must of not read my posts. I’ve said it all along and I was just making sense of what Blizzard has done. Explaining as to why GDKP’s are still banned. I said time after time I agree with you about GDKP’s being collateral. I’m done talking to you about this.
I’m done speaking to you about this as it’s not worth my time. You have made zero arguments that hold even a logical stance. I tore apart piece by piece your arguments. You have lost this fight and relied upon the no evidence strategy. I flip it back to you where is your evidence? You have none, I provided gold prices. And like a child you declare victory when you have lost. Just because I’m not talking to you doesn’t mean you have won any argument.
I have more evidence than you do. Having gold prices is more evidence then you have nothing. Ever since I ripped your logic apart you’ve been at me with an axe to grind. The fact you take this personal is extremely hilarious. The fact that you suckered me in saying, “Oh you won’t talk to me then I win.”
I think we are done here.
ok u have a graph that says gold went down
we have a graph that says the player base crashed into the ground as soon as gdkp was banned
if you want to argue bad faith, lets do it
I agree as to stopping the entire GDKP argument right now. Let Blizzard handle it as they have the data. None of you pro-GDKP people have evidence or data. What I’ve been getting at all along Blizzard knows something otherwise they’d reverse the ban. Pretty much the whole idea behind my arguments.