GDKP in Season of Discovery

[Lorasilis-wild-growth]

I’m going to try to cut this down on the response as there are word walls.

GDKP’s lead to an increase in RMT’s. RMT’s will lead to an increase in botting, boosting, and inflation. No matter how you do your alt prep GDKP’s indirectly causes increases to RMT’s. You all are dancing around the issue. I don’t care about the different ways things are done and about whales. At the end of the day GDKP’s, that’s right I said it many times before, increases RMT’s.

Ice cream machine is broken…fix it. Broken and fix go hand in hand. I don’t say I’m going to fix my bathroom, I say clean. The whole thing was over policing and was a bad example by that person. If someone’s to lazy to do something or doesn’t have the resources then that’s on them. If it affects the player base then that’s a problem for all. If Blizzard doesn’t have resources to fix RMT’s then the next best thing is to lower them. GDKP banning is an effective way to reduce RMT’s. That’s solely on Blizzard and you need to take it up with them. What you all are trying to do is bully Blizzard into reversing the ban.

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

A lot of people don’t want to find a guild

This was read out of context. GDKP’s are full of alts from player’s with mains in other guilds. What I meant was that players don’t want to find a guild for their alts. It’s easier to get into a GDKP with an alt and also more flex for schedule. Remember the quote say’s “A lot of people” not all.

Yes I agree, no doubt, GDKP’s would help retention. It’s just no where near effective as new content releases.

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

happened in retail once

This is out of context.

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

It happened in retail once Blizzard wouldn’t release new content the player base dropped off.

This is the actual quote. I should of put when instead of once, but reads the same either way. TBC for the most part, was my favorite expansion in wow. I do agree that Hyjal’s isn’t great because of how the raid functioned. TK could of been better, but I still enjoyed it. Listen I’m not arguing about GDKP’s giving something for people to do with alts. That point is perfectly clear, it’s one of the pros. Just saying when you do something you weigh the options. Cons out weigh the pros at this point in time or they’d of brought back GDKP’s.

@Blackuncle-lone-wolf

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

So people who don’t like GDKP’s, majority would still play. The same goes for people who like GDKP’s

People didnt quit because GDKPS were a thing, but when gdkps got ban people did quit, thats the difference here.

So I outlined this in that quote. If you cannot enjoy this game without GDKP’s at all then you’re not enjoying the actual game. If this is your belief then the only thing that I can point to is the fact you sell or buy gold. You have left yourself with no ground to stand on. If you get bored and GDKP’s are a way for you to do more then that’s fine. That’s Blizzards fault for not making enough content. Time interest in GDKP’s are definite as well and get tiresome. How many times you going to level an alt to do GDKP’s. Go play something else and force Blizzard to release content.

@Blackuncle-lone-wolf

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

Only thing GDKP’s do, is it gets you to play more alts to enjoy the raiding portion of it.

Thats another aspect of keeping the world alive no?

Yes it is, but again pros vs cons. Everything about GDKP’s will revert back to the pros vs cons argument. It’s also not about the number of things but the impact. Impact is everything on a game whether it’s directly or indirectly, which, is the reason GDKP’s were banned.

@Blackuncle-lone-wolf

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

If you can’t play the game and enjoy it like everyone else, this isn’t the game for you.

or maybe this game isnt ment for you? you can play wow in a MANY MANY different ways, if you wanted to pay gold for boosting in whatever aspect of the game that you could get boosted in may it be pvp or pve, i wont care.

This game is meant for me. I’m not the one threating to quit or quit. I’m not the one posting on non-sod chars like some of the other people. At least you are posting on a SoD char. I’ve enjoyed this game with and without GDKP’s in the past. Unfortunately RMT’s are heavily tied to GDKP’s indirectly and directly. RMT’s are not good for the game and that’s what I care about.

@Blackuncle-lone-wolf

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

The people that would RMT for GDKP’s are the ones who complain or quit.

I dont RMT and im complaining, so clearly that isnt true.

Well we don’t know that. Innocent until proven guilty as it should be. I should correct my statement to say, “The people that would RMT for GDKP’s are some of the ones who complain or quit.” There that should reflect properly and include the rare exceptions such as yourself. It maybe even more reasonable to say, “Majority of the people that use RMT’s for GDKP’s have either complained or quit after the GDKP ban.”

@Blackuncle-lone-wolf

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

The people who run GDKP’s to sell gold are complaining and are quitting.

Theres many other ways of obtaining a large sums of gold besides doing GDKPS to sell said gold, as im sitting on 52k rn.

Never denied other way’s of obtaining gold. I played on the AH to make my gold before joining my first set of GDKP’s. GDKP’s are the best and easiest way to make gold. What you said does not change my statement nor make it false.

@Blackuncle-lone-wolf

as i said before RMT isnt exclusive to ONLY GDKPS, nor is it the biggest source of RMT by a LONG SHOT.

I’ve been saying RMT’s still happen w/o GDKP’s all along so what are you arguing? Currently GDKP’s are not directly it’s biggest source because they don’t exist. I argued that GDKP’s being directly and indirectly tied to RMT’s overall as the largest source of RMT’s. The indirectly portion was the example I gave of making an alt for a GDKP. Needless to say, this stands true to this day.

@Blackuncle-lone-wolf

@Diescumdie-lone-wolf

Pst 10 bucks says he replies that makes no sense

Another stupid comment, made by you.

You two need some alone time to hug it out lol.

@Blackuncle-lone-wolf

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

If you see someone cheating report it and then Blizzard handles it.

it needs multiple reports for from different people for blizzard to actually notice it.

I mean this is correct, but still doesn’t change the fact that Blizzard wants our input. I’ve reported many bots in my time and received letters from Blizzard thanking me.

[Mtn-lone-wolf]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

We’ve seen bots and RMT continue without GDKP and honestly the difference is not noticeable.

The only difference is there was like 10 000people online and there is like 10people online now.

As well incursions did more inflation then gdkps ever could.

[Peeporiot-benediction]

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

Currently GDKP’s are not directly it’s biggest source because they don’t exist

so what’s currently the biggest source? we’ve got to weed out these rmters, rmt is bad for the game and anything that encourages rmt should be banned right

is it uncomfortable when i tell you that its the auction house? or is it mounts? well i’m not sure, but whichever one it is, both should be banned according to your logic here

[Intrude-whitemane]

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

You all are dancing around the issue.

The issue is Blizzard not enforcing their own ToS and banning people for RMT. Banning GDKP IS dancing around the issue. . . Instead of holding Blizzard accountable you cheer at them restricting a player made loot system? The whole anti-GDKP crowd are just control freaks. . .

[Peeporiot-benediction]

Pop quiz:

does anyone ever remember a version of wow (or any blizzard game with a currency) that does not have bots ? and i mean significant numbers of them

There aren’t any, its just this one where a loot system is held responsible for bots? i’m pretty sure no one is running diablo gdkps and well, the game is botted to hell and back, pun not intended

[Lorasilis-wild-growth]

@Bullakae-crusader-strike

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

When you remove GDKP’s you are removing a large reason for RMT’s, not all.

When you add GDKPs you are removing a large reason to RMT…

Raid expenses being covered in raid means less farming time outside of raiding.

Sorry man that logic doesn’t hold water. You are arguing the adding in GDKP’s will reduce over all RMT’s? See raid expenses is a lot smaller amount for one person vs buying multiple items. I explained the indirect effect GDKP’s would have on RMT’s just by making a new alt. If you cannot follow that logic I don’t know what to say at this point. I can assure you that overall GDKP’s will not reduce RMT’s, otherwise, Blizzard would of reversed banned it already.

Yes, I agree to the obvious. Just because you’d rather do a raid than farm mats or gold to get consumes isn’t a reason to reinstate GDKP’s.

[Drinknblink-benediction]

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

GDKP causes RMT’s to ramp up or happen more often.

Sure I can argue this.

You really think the people who had no issues buying gold stopped because gdkps don’t exist in SOD?

If they have no issues buying gold they are still buying gold, this is where your whole argument falls flat.

You don’t think those people are buying gold to be double crafting Prof not to mention most classes have boe BIS off the AH, I played a rogue they had over 7,000+ gold in bis off the AH in p3.

But sure gdkps got banned and all the gold buyers changed their minds about buying gold.

[Peeporiot-benediction]

Every single thing in the whole game that has currency being exchanged causes rmt to happen more often, this argument is just completely silly

[Drinknblink-benediction]

You mean to tell me having 7k+ gold in BOE bis items could cause someone to buy gold?

No way.

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

GDKP banning is an effective way to reduce RMT’s

No, it is not. This has become obvious based upon how things have played out in p2 and p3. This argument has proven to be utterly false. I called it in January and for the past 6 months. You are ignoring reality and clinging to the thesis that supports your bias.

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

Cons out weigh the pros at this point in time or they’d of brought back GDKP’s

You’ve failed to successfully make this argument. Why dont you refute mine? Simply stating this as fact doesnt mean anything.

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

If you cannot enjoy this game without GDKP’s at all then you’re not enjoying the actual game. If this is your belief then the only thing that I can point to is the fact you sell or buy gold

Lol, okay dude. “If you dont like losing rolls to grey parsers with no consumes that spent half the fight dead then you must buy or sell gold!!!”

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

RMT’s are not good for the game and that’s what I care about

Then you should be very unsatisfied with the game state currently. Bots are everywhere. You ahould also be wonderng why the GDKP ban hasn’t worked. That is, if RMT is truly your concern.

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

rare exceptions such as yourself

Lmao this is so disingenuous. Get out of here with this nonsense. You have literally nothing to back this.

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

I argued that GDKP’s being directly and indirectly tied to RMT’s overall as the largest source of RMT’s

This is such a tired and defeated argument. The bots started in phase 1 and never stopped. I keep highlighting the logical problem and you keep ignoring it. Did it feel like the “majority” of RMT stopped? Go ask the bot farmers that question.

Bottom line, you keep stating your biased views as fact and refuse to address my logic to combat the idea that the GDKP ban has been effective. Effective at what? Make the case to me that bot activity is down, that RMT is down, that the “pros” of the ban outweigh the cons.

[Lorasilis-wild-growth]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

First of all, this quote is taken out of context and was a secondary response to you admitting that RMT is happening a lot without GDKP only to turn around and say this. Second, you dont have any basis for claiming a “large amount” or “majority” of RMT is gone without GDKP. If anything the continuous bot activity throughout phases shows that this is false.

If it’s out of context fine, but that’s what happens with messages with no inflection being giving. Should of had sarcasm involved. Let’s just cut to the chase. Would RMT’s increase if GDKP’s return? The answer is yes, otherwise, GDKP’s would still be around. You have zero argument here. The only thing you point to is well Blizzard’s fault for not being able to control RMT’s. I’m just pointing out that due to the way Blizzard is ran this is the better option for all involved.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

GDKP causes RMT’s to ramp up or happen more often. That you cannot argue at all. So your banning the fish logic is flawed

Yes, I can argue this. We’ve seen bots and RMT continue without GDKP and honestly the difference is not noticeable.

Yes RMT’s exist and because they do you need bots. You increase the reason for RMT’s you increase the demand for bots. I can’t explain this as simple as this. Difference is noticeable because Blizzard hasn’t reinstated GDKP’s.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

You are inventing the idea that it will surge if it comes back and telling me I cant dispute it. I can. There are people buying gold today that wouldnt if they had the chance to earn it through gdkp.

I’m not inventing the idea, I’m stating logic. GDKP’s create an increased demand for RMT’s directly and indirectly. The person using RMT’s now can and will use them during GDKP’s. A person not afraid to RMT now will not hesitate when GDKP’s are unbanned.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

Banning fishing removes fishing, banning gdkp removes gdkp. Without fishing there are other professions. Without gdkp there are other loot options. Stop with the bad faith arguments for arguments sake.

You still don’t quite understand. If you ban fish we cannot get fish. You ban GDKP’s we can still raid. As you said it’s a loot system per your reference of loot options. The bad faith arguments are coming from you. You are upset that I’ve punctured a hole in your logic. No matter how far out we go with this argument it all comes back to RMT’s. Blizzard knows the facts behind this and if they felt the pros out weighed the cons it’d be back.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

So first and foremost it is Blizzard’s decision. Why? Because listen very very close, it is their game not ours.

This is wrong and you can ask the devs if you want. They will agree with me

I mean is your character your property or blizzards? We are renting their game. We pay for access on a monthly basis. They’ll agree with me 100% and not you as much as you would like it to be. There have been changes to this game that everyone likes or hates. We vote with a voices and dollars.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

So indeed GDKP’s were developed by the community no doubt. Blizzard listened to their community, that’s why it was banned

Did you think about this before writing it? Doesnt sound like you did. They, in fact, didnt listen to the community. They listened to a vocal minority that dont like what the community built.

I did in fact, but as before you don’t. You claim a minority and you have no proof. Also understand this as well a minority is still part of the wow community is it not? Everything you can argue for goes back to how Blizzard feels about this experiment now. Only thing I’m arguing is pointing out why they are doing it. As you continue to throw all these reasons out there trying to get a response, it boils down to Blizzard’s decision.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

Yes, there will be flaws with all loot distribution systems. Those other loot systems don’t destroy the economy like GDKP’s inadvertently do

GDKP doesnt do anything to the economy except promote transaction, which is actually good economics. You are identifying an issue with bots, which do destroy economies and are very much still a problem without GDKP.

I’ve explained this to death. You can lead a horse to water but not make it drink. So I said inadvertently which mean’s without intention. So I’m saying they don’t destroy the economy on purpose. The RMT’s is what’s missing all of this up and the fact Blizzard has limited resources to handle this issue. If RMT’s were gone GDKP’s from the heavens. I’ll make some with you man. Until then this is the reality we have to face. You are right about bots but they will start pouring in if RMT demands start to increase.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

This is your thesis based on a hunch. Do some people (buyers) buy gold for GDKP? Yes. Does GDKP income remove the incentive for others (carries) to buy gold? Yes. Would there be more net RMT with GDKP? Maybe? But whatever difference it makes was not even noticeable when GDKP was removed. Bots still botting away. The pros of gdkp also outweigh the cons, as dictated by the community who created it.

Not a hunch, reality. Not as much demand the gold prices go down. Less RMT’s the more effective bans will be when they occur due to less overall. It’s almost like you all wanting the value for selling gold to go up. That’s the only community you seem to support. You are constantly posting on a non-sod toon. We’ve argued in circles. No matter what you say and I say, it always comes down to Blizzard. If Blizzard determines that it’s not as bad then GDKP’s will be back otherwise this is the direction of SoD.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

GDKP’s aren’t stopping you from playing the game

Couldnt agree more. If you dont like GDKP you can not participate in them. Stop trying to go after GDKP using bots and RMT as an excuse. That argument has utterly failed.

Your argument is essentially hey if you don’t like something then don’t do it. I couldn’t agree with you more on that, however, when it affects the game it is a problem. I’ve said this many times now GDKP ban is collateral damage for them not being able to crack down on RMT’s. Your problem is with Blizzard not with the playerbase.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

GDKP’s will increase RMT’s and botting exponentially

This is wildly inaccurate if you’re paying attention to reality. Bots didnt go anywhere. Neither did RMT, which isnt surprising to GDKPers because we know that the accusations that gold buying in GDKP is rampant is false.

Reality is gold selling/prices dropped. It’s effective at reducing RMT’s and you cannot argue that at all. There maybe a ton of bots but they ain’t making money, and as they farm the price for gold keeps tanking. I keep telling you that it’s a combination of direct and indirectly, but you keep ignoring this. RMT’s still exist but decreased, I don’t know how hard I have to hammer that in. A lot of GDKP organizers sell gold to some extent or another.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

People saying they have or will quit over GDKP’s being banned raise suspicion to themselves

Lol, anyone that disagrees with my biased viewpoint is suspect

I mean is that statement I said wrong? People posting as non-sod toon constantly advocating for the unbanning of GDKP’s. Posting in multiple forums as to unban GDKP’s over and over again. So I’ll say the quiet part out loud. I think you are a suspect. If you truly had an interest in SoD and a GDKP you’d post on a SoD toon. Until then just hang out in classic era. I’m good with not having people like that around.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

Bottom line is bots and RMT are a problem and banning GDKP does very little to affect this problem. It just removes the most popular loot system from the game, which obviously drives away players.

Not driving players away. Lowering the amount of alt parses and gold sellers. No more GDKP’s being ran by people who steal the pot. No more organizers trying to off load some gold to other players. It actually cuts down population to see a reasonable rate at which real players play the game.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

The folks supporting the ban dont seem to be motivated to solve the actual problem of bots and RMT, but they are happy to use this as an excuse to get rid of a very popular loot system that they dont personally like. It’s cringe and shameful that the devs listened to these folks.

We are motivated but what can we do for policing. Like you said only Blizzard can police RMT’s and we can only report what we see. I support the ban for the economy of the game. GDKP’s like I said many times leads to an increase in RMT’s indirectly or directly. The problem is Blizzard has no way to police them properly so GDKP’s suffer. You are mad at Blizzard and that’s okay. I keep pointing this out that I don’t hate GDKP’s I hate what they bring, issues that Blizzard has trouble policing. They police it properly let GDKP’s fall from the heavens. Until then this will have to do as a work around.

[Lorasilis-wild-growth]

@Mtn-lone-wolf

As well incursions did more inflation then gdkps ever could.

This is true and people complained. Same people against GDKP’s guess what they are fixing it next phase.

[Tiyoo-area-52]

Do all these long walls of text pretty much say that if GDKPs increase RMT by 1%, it should be outright banned?

[Drinknblink-benediction]

So you’re saying the people who had no issues buying gold will buy gold with gdkps.

They however will still buy gold with them banned.

This really isn’t hard to grasp.

[Lorasilis-wild-growth]

@Peeporiot-benediction

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

Currently GDKP’s are not directly it’s biggest source because they don’t exist

so what’s currently the biggest source? we’ve got to weed out these rmters, rmt is bad for the game and anything that encourages rmt should be banned right

is it uncomfortable when i tell you that its the auction house? or is it mounts? well i’m not sure, but whichever one it is, both should be banned according to your logic here

I never wanted perfection as it’s not possible. There will always be RMT’s and unfortunately GDKP’s were collateral damage. If you have issues with all of this talk to Blizzard about handling the RMT’s. I’m just pointing out the logic in their decision. They’d of taken additional steps if they deemed it reasonable. They would of also reversed the ban on GDKP’s if it was a failed experiment. About to be 3 out of 4 phases without GDKP’s so it must be working for Blizzard.

[Lorasilis-wild-growth]

@Intrude-whitemane

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

You all are dancing around the issue.

The issue is Blizzard not enforcing their own ToS and banning people for RMT. Banning GDKP IS dancing around the issue. . . Instead of holding Blizzard accountable you cheer at them restricting a player made loot system? The whole anti-GDKP crowd are just control freaks. .

I only argue from a logical stand point from Blizzard. I’m neither for nor against GDKP’s. I told you all straight up. If the economy isn’t suffering I’d have no issues with GDKP’s and said so in previous posts. I agree that this is a Blizzard easy fix to a worse problem. I personally would like no RMT’s and Blizzard to have a huge staff. Unfortunately we don’t have the luxury and it’s a business with a model.

[Drinknblink-benediction]

How is the economy suffering by gdkps?

[Lorasilis-wild-growth]

@Drinknblink-benediction

@Lorasilis-wild-growth

GDKP causes RMT’s to ramp up or happen more often.

Sure I can argue this.

You really think the people who had no issues buying gold stopped because gdkps don’t exist in SOD?

If they have no issues buying gold they are still buying gold, this is where your whole argument falls flat.

Is it easier to find a needle in a haystack or a handful of hair. Lower RMT’s means more and easier bans. Therefore the bans would be more effective especially when you can’t just join a GDKP and regear toons. I never argued that gold buying would stop. I argued that it’s easier for bans and discourages people from buying it if you have nothing to spend it on. It lowers their demand. My logic is sound.

@Drinknblink-benediction

You don’t think those people are buying gold to be double crafting Prof not to mention most classes have boe BIS off the AH, I played a rogue they had over 7,000+ gold in bis off the AH in p3.

But sure gdkps got banned and all the gold buyers changed their minds about buying gold

My main is double prof and I made an alt to farm mats for prof. QoL by buying gold isn’t the right course of action. With less stuff to shift through they can ban more people. Gold is extremely low now for a reason, low demand. I mean at least you can buy bis off AH, it’s not my problem they are that way. You all keep missing the point. So I’ll just point it out. I feel like I’m repeating myself to all of you as you all are not reading what I’m typing. Either that or you are very emotional and not thinking logically.

RMT’s are the issue and Blizzard’s way to fix them isn’t the best. They have to work inside their means. So since GDKP’s are an indirect or direct cause for increase in RMT’s it was an easy decision to ban. This is due to Blizzard taking the easy way out. Once again your problem is with Blizzard. I argue that if banning GDKP’s didn’t have a positive effect. Then why is gold prices at an all time low and why hasn’t Blizzard reversed the ban. It’s a working fix for them instead of handling the RMT’s another way. It’s easier for the to make more effective bands. Want something to slow down or stop, remove the demand.

[Bullakae-crusader-strike]

GDKPs have no wealth creation.

[Drinknblink-benediction]

You can’t prove it’s a lower amount of people buying gold tho.

If 100% of the people who were already buying gold in SOD why would they quit buying gold in SOD just because gdkps were banned??

You said you were arguing logically?

Unless they flat out removed the need for gold the people who had no issues buying gold are legit still buying gold.

Sod has a min/max on professions that have you to double crafting, how are raid loggers getting gold that fund their crafting epics, how are they buying the 7k+ gold in AH bis?

You also said that gdkps make the economy suffer, how so?

If you buy a sword in a gdkp how does that increase the price of mana potions?

Supply and demand dictate those prices, you buying a trinket in a gdkp doesn’t increase the supply of the mana potions and it doesn’t decrease the demand of mana potions.

You said you were using logic but that doesn’t seem to be the case.