ah yes the monthly “bump every thread that has GDKP in the title.” wave.
The horse is dead ya’ll let it rest, let the horse lay in peace.
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I mean, I want people to play alts. Like I mentioned there are pros and cons to GDKP’s. Alt creation being one of them, however, the RMT’s are what’s screwing over GDKP’s. If that was fixed then GDKP’s would be more welcome.
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The problem with GDKP discussions is that a lot of people are legit bad actors pushing their business. Many are not even Americans.
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Couldnt agree more. Let’s solve that problem instead of focusing on GDKPs
In laymen’s terms for the people out there in the thread with reading comprehension issues. same/similar ammount of players less parses because less alts. now we have to question was it GDKP’s going away or the lvl cap increase with no exp buff that caused it?
P3 we have exp buff from the start and GDKP changes are already a thing. so why the big dropoff? probably because 20 mans killed the pug raiding scene.
I read the graph as follows. P2 little under 189k parses first week to last week being 162k parses. I’d say an overall drop of 30k parses even though during 3rd week there was a huge boost. If you look during phase 3 it goes up a little on the 5th week it’s roughly equal to the first week. It then drops a decent amount towards the last 3 weeks where it slows down and levels out a little more. I’d say at 5 weeks people ran out of content and attention let alone Cata pre-patch release. Think people were not raiding as much 6th or 7th week due to Cata coming up the 8th week along with getting geared out. Go from raiding on multiple chars down to 1 that still needs loot. Once Cata drops you seem to see the level off of consistent raiders.
As for whether GDKP’s or 20’s man were the reason for the decrease. I’d argue GDKP’s for the reason of the tons of alts. For actual player base I would say not if you look at the first week of P2 and P3 there isn’t that big of a drop off. The spikes the following weeks aren’t that good either. I think it’s the raid ST itself and not so much 20’s even though I know people that were complaining about 20 mans. Consistent drop is do to getting full bis’d and no content plus Cata.
Honestly I think it was content issues and the fact people just didn’t like ST. I do know several people weren’t happy about ST being 20 man let alone it being ST and not Mara.
Unfortunately we probably won’t know the truth whether GDKP’s or 20’s were the issue. As we don’t have the data. I would say the following, GDKP’s were the welcome change not the 20 man’s. I’ll just leave it at that.
why are you only looking at the first and last weeks? first week is generally only going to be sweats who grinded the levels the average players were still leveling. last week season 3 had been announced and people were waiting for that to launch.
we should look at when the dropoffs started happening. p2 its was about 6 weeks into the phase before it started falling. P3 started falling after 3 so why did P3 start falling off quicker probably because people didnt feel like waiting an hour plus just to pug a raid.
My apologies. I meant to say P2 little under 189k parses first week to first week of P3 being 162k parses.
So 6th week was peak P2 there is also only 2 weeks left of P2. I’d assume by then they announced P3. Some people take time off from raiding before next phase release. I’d also attribute to 10 man and being bis’d out. Week 3 was indeed peak P3, but the drop off is less steep as compared to after P2 week 6. Also ST didn’t have a good initial release due to tuning errors.
To your question is it harder to pug 10 or 20 people? The answer is 20 obviously, but I wouldn’t say 20 man’s alone were the cause. I think 20 man’s were one of the many causes that contributed to P3 not being as popular. I would also state to your claim it is more than likely during P3 that the people quit because of 20 man’s than GDKP’s. By the time P3 rolled around and no new GDKP’s were announced all the people quitting due to GDKP’s were weeded out.
theres also about half the parses.
which would mean people still weren’t completing the raid and needed gear still so being “BIS’ed” out really isnt a good argument.
Correct. week 8 or last week of p2 we had triple the parses that we do in week 8 of p3. We still had a solid amount of parses for p2 compared to p1 you can literally look at the graph and see the GDKP drop off and the 20 man raiding drop-off and factually the 20 man one is bigger.
p1 end: 405k, p1 peak: 486k
p2 start: 170k, p2 peak 324k, p2 end 243k
p3 start: 165k, p3 peak 189k
these are the numbers, if u want to argue that each patch hasn’t been dramatically less successful than the last, be my guest
So my argument on the BiS’d out is saying that towards the end less raids would be run due to this. If someone has alt then more than likely their main might be BiS’d and they are only working on the alt now. Condensing multiple raids into 1 within the guild or having to pug outside. Also people or guilds sometimes take a week or two off before phase release. Also the tuning being an issue was first pretty quickly if I remember. Nerfs were done to bosses before reset. I know that the nerfs may of not been fast enough, but I wouldn’t assume that a mass of people quit over that.
Well like I said we can never know the real numbers. As for first week of P2 I’d say there was indeed people that were GDKP only people trying the game. I’d say by the end of P2 those people have either moved onto guilds or quit the game.
you forgot to add the low of p3 which as of right now about 50k which funnily enough is a bigger dropoff then from p1 to p2 weird its almost like
so then this would backup my point about p2 being successful without GDKP then because aside from weeks 1 and 2 where people were still leveling that was the lowest point.
your right but we can make a good educated guess
I’m personally not denying the large drop off. I’m just saying other factors besides people hating a raid because it’s a 20 man instead of a 10 man contributed to the drop off. If you notice this is consistent with retail once they hit a wall with content release. People lose interest also Cata was release towards the end. Once people get their gear and are set for P4 they are raiding cata or doing other things. Some people are taking a break from raiding until P4. P3 is in it’s 13th week with P4 on the PTR. It can be two weeks to a month before we see P4 depending on what they want to test and fix before release.
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i can’t add the drop off because it hasn’t ended, the current numbers are somewhere between doom and the end of the world
you can look at the current low and see its bigger…
listen to the players and revert it. You know it was a wrong move.
you can look at the high and see it was when gdkp existed, what would that prove? there’s like 500 different reasons why populations shift
Yes I’d say with that numbers P2 saw their more in line with player base or actual players than P1. The argument for GDKP’s to come back due to player decline doesn’t hold water over all.
With P2 and P3 being closer to the player base yes. Because that is the actual argument we care about is people not alts not playing.