That’s not a mental break, it’s a waste of time.
I am just confused at this point especially since normal and heroic are flex, raiding hasn’t been more easier to get into.
It is definitely true that Mythic raiding isnt for everyone.
M+ is great but the reward and difficulty are completely out of wack.
Back in shadowlands, bfa and legion half or more of my gear used to be from m+, right now on my main I have 1 item from m+. M+ being infinitely farmable has become and non issue now with Dragonflight.
My fault, i apologize for the confusion. When I say “raid”, I’m not talking about lower difficulties. 25 man Heroic used to be super approachable. Using a focus macro for kicks was extremely leet and caring about stat weights was “nerdy min max”. People showed up and learned mechanics in real time. I could play my character at full efficacy and make the raid calls without splitting my brain in half.
25 man heroic was not super approachable. You were playing with good players.
Server first didn’t even happen until Cataclysm came out for heroic LK.
I mean, would Mythic survive if it still only gave Heroic raid gear in the instance and Mythic gear in the vault? If it wouldn’t, maybe there are some other things to consider here.
If you increase the difficulty of M+ enough, there needs to be a spammable Myth gear track. Which brings us right back to the problem of “raids are not spammable for gear”, which begs the question of how to balance Mythic raiding gear against an “equivalent” difficulty of M+. M+ still only ever gets one piece of Mythic raid equivalent gear a week no matter how far into a tier we are.
That’s fine, but I wasn’t talking about Season 3. I’m talking overall, because overall is what matters. If we’re discussing it, this season is easy, the raid also seems relatively easy (outside of Mythic), and I’d need to see some participation statistics across the levels of content to draw any further conclusions. Overall, raiding needs more of a change than “give loot more easily than M+”, because that’s not a solution. Raiding is the loot system that is behind their current design curve, not M+.
Also, this. Farmable M+ only matters if you’re trying to gear equivalently to Heroic, and if you’re starting seasons at the key level awarding that gear/Mythic vault gear regularly you’re either in the top brackets of gameplay, riding on the gear you worked on from last season, or both. I don’t get why people have a problem with that, though.
People spend a whole hell of a lot more time focusing on and shouting about their gear in the lower brackets of play than their own gameplay. That’s half of the issue.
This was definitely not the case for my raiding guilds in TBC and Wrath, and certainly not fot my Classic guilds either. They always had a learning curve, watching tactic videos have always been a thing and raidleaders were always some sort of rap god calling out mechanics while DBM/BigWigs were screaming at you.
The above is the case for your average guild, it is obvious that higher skill players had it easier, but that would be the equivalent of them entering heroic raids now while their skill level is on Mythic level.
They’re not adding in new dungeons though. These old dungeons need spice just as much now as they did then. I don’t need mythic dungeons tools to plan a route for waycrest or AD, I just know the route because I tanked keys in BFA. Getting rid of seasonal affixes was throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Obviously no one liked thundering, but awakened is the most loved seasonal affix of all time. Awakened provided a method to create interesting routes through dungeons. Not only could you skip mobs, you could also skip pillars and make the last boss harder.
It wouldn’t survive because it doesnt make sense, people keep doing mythic for the gear and character progression, the difficulty should reflect the reward.
There doesn’t need to be a spammable myth gear track because that means you’re overgearing the m+ dungeon content. You dont need mythic gear to clear a +20 key, this has been the case for the entirety of this expansion.
I’d argue that the this debate sparked even more because of the relatively easyness of this season.
The difficulty of the season 3 dungeons didnt increase enough compared to the pretty high ilvl increase we got.
I agree that we need more new dungeons, but I rather have more interesting mechanics on trash and bosses then having some global seasonal affix that can make or break a season per person.
Just as an fyi, the reasoning for removing the seasonal affix came from Blizzard themselves, not me just guessing 
Think heroic raid should give mythic vault rewards.
Raids shouldn’t have lockout and heroic should give mythic ilvl gear on the vault.
Problem solved.
We’re not in 2004 anymore, stop timegating everything, including gear.
Im a m+ player and look at my ivl.
i never had this much bad luck in the game, EVER, every time i drop something is a repeat or useless gear with terrible stats.
m+ isnt free loot, being a degenerate that sits in the game for 12+ hrs straight is.
Also being lucky.
Raids having a lockout is good. I don’t want to be incentivized to farm the bosses 10-20x on the first week.
This doesn’t feel true in the slightest. Blizzard has long had the option to make it so if that is truly their end goal.
I’m pretty certain they care far more that you “are” signing in and far less “how long and what you are doing during it”.
No lockout is good, sorry.
If people want to degen the game. let them do it, people already do SPLITS for gear, so whatever.
Cut the bs already, let people gear fast and the way they want.
Gear shouldn’t even be a factor anymore in a game that becomes more competitive by every patch, it really BLOWS when RNG decides how fast you can run your desired content.
Lockout is better, just have it drop more loot rather than incentivizing splits.
There are other ways to reward the progression, unless Blizzard is willing to unscrew the current tracks of gear. Either we want parity between both gearing paths or we don’t, but M+ only outpaces the Normal/Heroic raiding gearing tracks.
You misunderstood what I said, apparently.
If we’re going to increase the rewards from raiding heavily, including Mythic raiding, there needs to be some sort of increase to the viability/pacing of upper end M+ gearing to keep parity. Unless this isn’t about parity? “You don’t need mythic gear” isn’t an argument, and technically the same argument you’re making about doing Mythic for the gear should apply to M+ since M+ has no regular source of Myth track gear outside of the vault, right?
Balance flips from season to season. Sometimes the keys are easy, sometimes the raids are easy.
The raid, from the outside looking in on Normal/Heroic, looks a lot easier than Vault/Aberrus. Aside from the question of spammable gearing (REMOVE THE DAMNED LOCKOUT ON RAID GEAR), I don’t see a huge problem with this season.
Either Mythic raiding needs to make concessions for M+ being “made fair for raiders”, or just drop the idea of limiting either and move forward.
The people that splits will actually matter for have chosen to do the content in the particularly strange way they do it. That’s their problem, not everyone else’s.
I don’t mind them bringing old dungeons back, some of these dungeons are incredible and are very fun to play again. What I want is seasonal affixes to return to spice these dungeons up. Bringing back Kara and mechagon in SL was great, but it had shrouded which spiced them up a bit.
As it stands, with dragonflight s3 I’m getting old dungeons that are more bland than they were when they were current content. Not only do I not get seasonal affixes, but the dungeons themselves are nerfed. I get AD without snapping, nerfed sauralids, nerfed last boss. I get waycrest with a static route because all the doors are open. No reaping, no awakened.
Blizzard has been wrong many times. This would just be one of many things in a long list of things they’ve been wrong about.
It’s only a problem when the game gets balanced around RWF. That needs to stop. I’m tired of Blizzard balancing stuff (or not) because of the RWF.