GD: making solo farming in old legacy raids less annoying

Community General Discussion
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Again the argument about RNG being good or bad for cosmetics, a lot of people just see this as “rarity”, but rarity could come from a 100% drop chance behind an actual challenge (Mythic mounts, Glad mounts). Also, Maizou wants good quality of life with her imputs, i got the 4 MoP World bosses mounts via farming and its really time consuming. I’d suggest at least reduce the spawns to 2-5 mins, its a game that should have gameplay, not a waiting room…

Also, we’ve examples of changes to mounts like the mechagon meta achievement (Mechadone) changes in the middle of SL because some items had a really low drop or the future love event and other event mount changes, Devs already acknowledge the fact that RNG can be really bad for the community, RNG has 2 components the attempts ratio and the actual % drop, if i could farm sha of anger with just 1 character instead of creating an army of alts that would be easier. (And I mean kill it 50-100 times per week with 1 character).

Also, rarity its a matter of player perspective, someone that got the sha mount when the boss had RNG spawn points could said that’s achievement was harder that me, that got it from the current sha spawn point. Same for other mounts that got changes over years like love rocket.

We’ve examples of mounts in SL from rares with low drop chance but also the same mounts are in the covenant vendor for offerings.

Actually, we got a bad luck mechanic for mounts like MoP World Bosses, its the black market but the frequency and high cost make this a difficult option, imagine if these mounts show in the daily BMAH 2-3 times per week always on all realms, the price will get lower eventually, but we got a lot of thrash there and the frequency of good mounts is low.

As collector, I’d like to see more rarity challenges with evergreen content like the mage tower rather than RNG that just waste my time, drives new players away from collecting (due to the alt army meta required to beat odds) and provides an excuse for adding new mounts achievements every 4 years instead of more frequently. A healthy drop % and attempts should be the middle ground if you dont like “handouts”, the reward desing should be designed around a player with 1 single character, just check how many weeks/years will take for a player with 1 character to reach another player amount of attempts…

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On the other hand, I originally got into collecting because I didn’t like “challenging” content and having a small chance at mount was a nice background goal while stomping legacy stuff and making gold (back before vendor prices started getting nerfed into the ground … shakes fist at bots).

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Letholas, have you ever considered that people want to move on and farm other stuff as well, rather sitting 17k tries on the same thing?

In a perfect world the game would encourage you to farm everything over time, due the rewards. But the current system is obnoxious.

Final Fantasy 14 has the better reward system, hands down.

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There should absolutely be bad luck protection on all drops, especially cosmetics.

  • There is no reason a poor player should have to kill Sha 17,000 times and still not have the mount. RNG is not good content. If I knew i was guaranteed an item after 100 runs I would be doing way more old raids, dungeons, etc. It would be fun trying to get it from luck, and if I never got lucky I would be happy knowing my runs will end soon once I hit the guaranteed chance at 100 runs. 100 runs seems pretty fair, maybe some super fancy stuff like legendary weapons could be 200 or something.

  • Speed boost, account-wide skips, and general QoL in old instances would also be good. Some classes are so slow and running down huge raid hallways is terrible sometimes.

  • I hate how many Glory achieves are still not soloable and required.

  • I also don’t understand why old world bosses are still like 15 minutes respawn and many of them now instantly die again. Why do some have an immunity timer and some don’t? If the bosses spawned in like 2 minutes after a kill it wouldn’t be as bad if you did not tag it fast enough and the weekly runs would be so much faster. 15 minutes across alts really does add up.

I hope WoW gets modernized on its legacy rewards soon. They did say they understand the pain of some mounts like the Love Rocket. I really hope that means they will actually do something for ALL old content. There should be no drops under 1%, personally I say nothing under 5%. But bad luck protection can help with that. Even in modern expansions, the ZM proto synthesis items rely on obnoxious RNG. I’m tired of so much content requiring luck and months of not years of time if you don’t get lucky with RNG.

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Where low probably RNG becomes a problem is when making that roll is the only reason for doing the run.

See also various protoform mats in ZM … they were fun (for me) in the background while doing other daily tasks, but as soon as a 1% drop was the only thing I was grinding a particular mob for, the entertainment value dropped off a cliff

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That’s true, the only good part of ZM proto synthesis approach is that for almost all mounts you dont require more that 1 character because you can farm some items from mobs all day, however there’s also the low drop % which causes a player to farm for hours. Everything its about amount of attempts and %. In this case you’ve tons of attempts but low % which causes a burn out in the player eventually.

This!

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Exactly. I’d be doing WAY more old content running if there was a guarantee after a certain amount of kills.

After so long it becomes demoralizing and discourages you from continuing to run it.

The ignorance in his reply that you can’t be discouraged from cosmetic stuff made me eyes roll so hard.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/904109729188573194/1015022079072010260/Screenshot_20220901-151031_Brave.jpg

This may get well be the one post that has ever been posted on these forums about this game that I disagree with by far the most though.

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I feel like the people who are against bad luck protection would have never complained if WoW had launched with it originally. But since it’s been this awful system for years, we should just continue to suffer. :woman_shrugging:

I highly doubt they would be complaining if they got Invincible in 100 runs like anyone else under a bad-luck protection system. They just really wanted to do ICC 5,000+ times… for some reason.

Cosmetics should not be tied to RNG that can possibly never drop for years. It’s insane to support it. RNG that has a reasonable failsafe is a good compromise so there is an end to the torture. Having things never drop is indeed demoralizing and kills my enthusiasm and excitement for content.

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If they wanted people to farm old content, they would have made at least some of these changes years ago. My conclusion is that no matter what they tell players, they don’t want them to do old content. They must think that if players no longer do old content they would be pushing high keys full-time or something.

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or nalak. here do the math for me. 6 accounts with total of 350+ toons x 9 years x 52 weeks per year x 2 chances per kill bonus roll on top of kill = yea thats my estimated nalak kills and still no mount.

here is a fast example of how many toons and kills i made on sha, galleon and oondasta. i got all 3 of their mounts all within 1 month of each of their release, thats how many toons and kills i made on them.

so yes i agree some bad luck protection for everything needs to be added. but maybe to late.

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Bad luck protection can be retroactive.

When they added BLP for the legion paragon boxes, it took into account all of the boxes you’d opened in the past.

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It took me 2 years of weekly runs, sometimes a couple runs a week, of SoO to get the Dark Shaman set.

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Years

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I expected by this time some sort of talking with devs about this kind of topic but they only care about the same seasonal rotation and lack of communication with the CC members

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What about shadowlands mounts from rares with 1% drop and also an option to buy the same mount for offerings… Those are both RNG and Guaranteed, there’s multiple ideas, increase drop chance per kill… Etc, right now, collectors need an army of alts for some mounts, think about new players perspective too and the impact on some RNG, the frequency not only the drop chance, the amount of attempts per character. That’s why we got finally devs talking about love rocket, also the gameplay behind, what kind of gameplay provides the old content for those rewards… Etc.

Check similar mmorpgs strategies for cosmetics and how the player time is value compared to a slot machine like WoW on which alts are just another attempt for some players.

I’d like to see devs checking both points of views Maizou and yours even when I think improvement are needed, so other players don’t waste the same amount time like i did, however CC is being ignored…

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Let’s put it this way. The player has a limited understanding of what is needed to do and they know it. Otherwise: Why don’t they answer here in this topic?

Because they know they’re wrong on a fundamental level.

Of course not. Pride was always a problem with our race - and when it comes to digital goods, it got worse.

I still have to do this one for my future Orc Shaman… ugh.

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:rotating_light:WEEWOOWEEWOO!:rotating_light::oncoming_police_car: THIS IS THE FUN POLICE!:man_police_officer: COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP! WE HAVE YOU SURROUNDED!!

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What I find so infurating is how crassly dismissive Worldpvp and Letholas are of other peoples time

On a weekly lockout, people have MULTIPLE alts that just go around killing these bosses weekly, I actually gave up after getting to almost 3k attempts because it feels bad to spend all that time trying to get a thing and not being able too. Heck, the only reason I even started farming Galleon for the Mushan Beast mount was to go with a savage pandaren warrior rp concept I had. This ‘farm’ killed any desire I had for it.

Oh, so because you got lucky dropping tons of gold on boxes, that’s the same as people spending hours every week waiting on respawns and ‘grinding’ their once weekly chance to spin the wheel? Honestly willing to bet you get that gold by either using tokens or selling boosts too which further devalues the ‘accomplishment’ you are claiming.

If the boss could be killed over and over after it respawns due to an expansion being legacy, I don’t think any one would be complaining, but currently, if you are doing 10 kills per week (which is a fairly low number for most people farming these mounts) you are looking at over 2.5hrs of time spent just relogging, killing the boos, repeat ad naseum until it’s done on all your characters, and that’s assuming perfectly getting the boss each time, or not having delays relogging or hopping servers which might be on a completely different time throwing everything off.

To quote a friend of mine that FINALLY got Invincible in retail about 2 months ago after having farmed for it since WotLK was current: “I don’t feel accomplished, I feel empty, I wanted it so bad, and then I got to a point where it wasn’t because I wanted it, but because I refuse to let the game beat me, and that I’d show it I could get that stupid horse.”

The TL:DR; Of course the ‘has’ people want to pull up the ladder for the Has Nots or refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem as, after all, they got theirs.

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At least on my opinion, there’s not too much ‘accomplishment’ on anything that has a big RNG element on this game,I prefer the mage tower book mount approach with challenge content and a straight forward reward.

Any RNG mount that doesn’t provide any progress overtime for each attempt or anything at all is bad, therefore; the best approach for any player that wants to collect or new player is to create as many characters as possible for more attempts which is just boring gameplay.

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The only changes i support to old content would be for all raids to have the legacy buff implemented as soon as the expansion is over and for the removal of any mechanics that make soloing impossible/disproportionately tough. I wouldn’t support buffing drop rates of things or removing lockouts.

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That would be fine, if they didn’t mega nerf the drop rates when the new expansion drops.