Having a set amount for the hardest mode (should) allow for much tighter balancing of the encounter.
I however wish it was 10 people, I know many like bigger raids but I very much liked smaller raid sizes as you could build a raid group of good players easier. 25/20 often requires you to have to bring some players that are not as good or don’t fit in socially just because you need to fill spots. 10 also translates better from 5man groups with a simple
2-tank 2-heals 6-dps which is just 2 dungeon groups.
more. go and look at the guilds on any realm on warcraft logs. and look today. you will be lucky if you find more than 1-5. and i can guarantee you the ones that you find were already a 25 man raid guild. facts. i main raided with 1 guild on alliance and 1 guild on horde both sides. then i alt raided pug on these realms with multiple guilds. by the time wod was over they were all gone and still are gone.
I think a fixed roster size is appropriate for the highest tier of raiding as it prevents all the janky scaling issues you see in normal and heroic. Those difficulties are easier and you can work around the jank.
What they should do is change the lockout to work like everything else in modern WoW. This would allow reclears and some limited pugging.
I do think they should evaluate removing the mythic raid id lockouts in favor for boss lockouts like heroic. Maybe after X number of weeks, or X number of guilds clear entire raid like cross-realm works today.
It is very hard to “pug” 20 man content when no one wants to get locked. Especially now with the GV awarding raid loot. No one wants to miss out on the “easy” bosses.
I get the whole “join a guild” mentality, but frankly a lot of us just don’t have a schedule that permits fixed raid times. Nor does that help you if you have guildies who are offline for some reason, or vacations, or all of the other reasons why you may be short some Y number of members on any given raid night.
Mythic raiding needs to be changed to Flexible raid sizes (at least after Hall of Fame fills up). Also get rid of raid lockouts and make cross-realm raiding available from Day 1. Any argument that 20 man format is needed to keep balancing consistent is completely laughable in the face of:
That’s a good idea but doesn’t fix the issue that there’s a lot groups with less that 20 players fighting against this fixated number just to progress and the sad part is that these fights are only hard as current content since Blizzard doesn’t implemente evergreen systems, so a lot of player miss the opportunity to engage with these challenges.
Also, there’s a lot of players that like to interact with only few players,there’s a lot of issues around merging guilds…etc, that’s why 20M mechanics that only 1 player could wipe the whole raid became a recent hot topic too, because there’s a bigger gap for failure on 20M compared to 10-15M
Haha “fine tune” yeah like Sepulcher was fine tuned to only require over 100 separate nerfs. God forbid we might have some slight differences in difficulty if one guild has a smaller or larger raid size. That would throw off the fine tuning!
If people really want to raid mythic tons of guilds are recruiting, and if you can’t recruit people it’s probably a management problem. The only missed opportunities are the ones people don’t take here. For understandable reasons, which for me often mostly boils down more to the time requirement of mythic than just for roster reasons.
Players that want to interact with fewer players should look for other content, that’s why they made M+. And why some want 10man back, which as long as they keep 20man someway I’m fine with, as a fixed difficulty for hard content is the way to go for all reasons said before in this topic.
I mean I get where you are coming from, but 10 is way too few.
We are about to enter a world with 13 classes. 14 and 15 are likely 6 years out assuming WoW goes on that long.
Mythic has encounters designed around having representation from all of the classes (usually or at least a decent cross-section).
10 would be way way too limiting. They might be able to swing 15 and likely will if population issues get worse.
This to me is a separate issue. Should there be so many 1 person wipes the raid type of mechanics? In either mythic or heroic.
I guess I can go either way on that one. Things like Fatescribe though just end up getting skipped week over week. Others I don’t think are necessarily as egregious. YMMV here though.
Lol. 20m is directly responsible for the slow death of highest difficulty raiding. Well, it’s one of the biggest factors atleast. Blizzard killed hundreds, possibly thousands of guilds almost overnight when this was announced.
A lot of people like to say a fixed roster size helps with scaling but…that’s not true…
People (me included) have said we have too many classes and damage profiles. But 20m doesn’t stop class stacking either. Encounter design stagnation? Not really, every fight comes down to the same things anyway. So what’s really the difference…? These all happened when 10 and 25 were around.
They should’ve focused on 10m because that’s what everyone liked to play.
Raid design in general needs an overhaul. It’s outdated, unrewarding, and too time consuming.
Not a single raid has ever required you have every class. Not a single one.