I would like to think that Grom gets to be with his ancestors in some sort of shaman orc heaven. But other people have beat that topic to death already.
1 Like
Who knows? Regardless, Iâm not putting a lot of stock in âreclaimingâ the Dead. Nor am I sure I even want them if that were an option. I am of the firm belief that the dead of Shadowlands should serve as a catalyst to develop the still living, and while it appears that they will instead steal the show ⊠Iâm still not fond of the dead coming back to life.
MU Grom is dead. AU Grom may still yet be alive. The MU Orc roster still has some substance to it if Blizz would only use it, with characters like Thrall, Rexxar, Eitrigg, and Nazgrel on the table. The AU Magâhar in contrast could use at least one strong character to support Geyaârahâs development.
1 Like
(Commentary): That is fair, although I sincerely believe reclaiming some of the dead would be a good way to rebuild the factions and player sense of pride in them. I havenât seen a lot of happy Horde players for a while now, but talking about Garrosh and Kaelâthas and even Draka to an extent has put some spirit back into the Horde players Iâve encountered. Iâd say itâd be worth it to bring some characters back if it helps heal faction pride, especially if we can get, say, Garrosh as a good leader.
1 Like
Personally, part of the reason I donât want to reclaim the dead characters is because that would just be an easy out for Blizz. Rather than taking the time to actually make up for the way they used the Horde, damaged its Faction identity, and ravaged its Racial Fantasies by building up replacements from our still good ⊠but very underdeveloped roster ⊠theyâll just take the cheap and fast way out by bringing back big names from the past. They donât need the effort.
I realize this is petty, but Iâve come to realize the reason that working with Alliance characters so extensively bothers me is not because I dislike working with them. In fact, normally, Iâd enjoy what should be the novelty of it. Instead, I deeply dislike it because with how Blizz writes this game, the Horde PC working with the Alliance/Neutral-Alliance characters has become synonymous with the DEEP neglect theyâve shown my faction and its characters for over a decade.
Bringing back the dead would be nothing more than a flashy, lazy gimmick and placebo.
2 Likes
(Commentary): I suppose in my hopelessly optimistic mind, bringing back the dead wouldnât be just to fix faction pride, but because there would be new stories to tell with these characters. Imagine a Garrosh who leaves Revendreth as a more whole and healthy person, who returns to the Horde and is able to reign in the Magâharâs more violent tendencies and unite the Orcs, but refuses a position of leadership higher than a commander or something as an act of penance for his failures as Warchief. What might this Garrosh accomplish beyond that?
1 Like
What would bringing Garrosh accomplish beyond cutting open barely healed wounds on the opposing faction and set the ground work for the Horde to be villain batted again?
How about Kealâthas? What would his coming back to life accomplish beyond bringing a âRoyal Bloodlineâ barely associated with the Horde faction back in to undermine a BE that has actually Bled âRedâ so consistently over the years. How about MU Grommosh? Doomhammer? I see nothing of value coming from these legacies coming back, and Blizz absolutely using their reincarnations as an excuse to not develop the still living roster. Volâjin being the sole exception, as his death is literally being portrayed as part of his path.
We have a large roster of characters that could have potential if Blizz just was willing to give them some attention and time. The issue is, theyâre absurdly underused, underdeveloped, and frankly underpowered atm. And with how theyâve written the Horde its already a long-shot expecting them to get it; and it will never happen if they take a short-cut and just bring back the old legends.
2 Likes
Lei Shen feels more Maldraxxus for me, and demons who experience true cease to exists. Their souls are snuffed out and, as far we know, go nowhere.
Thereâs no way theyâre going to bring these legends from the past to be a part of red alliance, imagine telling Kael or Orgrim that weâre now buddy buddy with the humans or telling them to shut up the moment they have a disagreement with them, they will get villain batted again and weâll have to suffer another expansion full of annoying cow pacifist comments.
1 Like
People do get that functionally the Horde has always been an Alliance right? Like, by the textbook definition weâve always been one. All we did was lose what Blizz turned into a dangerous liability role within the faction, that quite frankly had already begun stretching the boundaries of being able to represent the races long before. And that was before the influx of new ARs. Plus, Kael betrayed his people to the forces of the Fell, and Doomhammer led his people to ruin with his war. The latter dying a broken man riddled with regrets and remorse.
I feel like âRed Allianceâ is only ever used in reference to the Horde not defining its entire Faction Identity around simply being contrarian to the âAllianceâ. How dare we want stability? Like, people do realize we have more WC3 Horde legends actively involved in the current Horde leadership than weâve had in ages right? Thrall, Rexxar, Gazlowe, and Rokhan are all OG WC3 Horde. All Blizz really has to do is Loa up Volâjin and finally remember my poor boy Nazgrel and functionally the only character weâve lost from the original roster since WoW is Cairne.
Orgrim Doomhammer did what he had to do, conquer their enemies, I mean, thatâs what the current horde lacks, leadership ready to put the interests of their own above all first and solve internal problems later.
Just consider this, when Thrall and company attacked the internment camps they werenât liberating innocent civilians, they killed humans and destroyed human property to liberate prisoners of war, now we have leaders like Baine who dare advice to negotiate in the same room where the corpse of his ally lies.
Doomhammer fought the war he thought he needed to, because he and his people were left stranded on a World that wanted them dead. But the way he approached solving that problem nearly led to the extinction of his entire race; and even he came to terms with that at the end. Doomhammer didnât have the power he needed to âconquer oneâs enemiesâ and it ended in disaster for him and his people. His and Thrallâs attack to âLiberate their Peopleâ was only ever intended to be just that ⊠then get away if they could. They picked a manageable fight they had a slim chance at winning, rather than overestimating themselves and picking a fight they couldnât.
The current Horde keeps being forced to pick fights with an enemy weâre constantly told we could never hope to beat without them being ideologically and literally handicapped. Look how thatâs repeatedly turned out. The Horde may be stronger now than its ever been, but donât think to believe weâve yet gotten to the point where we could take them out. At best, weâve only gotten strong enough that taking us out may not be worth the catastrophic losses.
2 Likes
Iâm totally ok with that and think just like you, considering what was happening in Draenor and that they were already there he did what he had to, conquer land for his people, didnât work in the end but I think it was probably because of Gulâdan and the feud they had at that point.
Now about the internment camps, the objective was only to liberate and leave but it was still an act of aggression towards the humans, imagine Baine there telling Thrall, Orgrim and Grom that they shouldnât kill humans and instead negotiate their liberation, he would have never sided with them considering that the humans were doing nothing wrong there.
To summarize, Iâm not advocating for more senseless killing, I want the characters of my faction to show a little dignity, old Thrall stood side by side with two times blood crazed Grom even after he killed Cenarius, current leaders are too trigger happy with their own and soft with the enemy.
1 Like
There is a hunting grounds heaven thing for some orcs. Though I can definitely see Grom going to Maldraxxus instead.
Blizzard damaged the Horde character roster too much. Getting some of them back for good is just fair retribution.
I think that both Droite and Exacitor made good arguments, but honestly I lean towards developing the characters that were in the background and giving them their time in the spotlight over bringing back old ones. The problem with legacy characters like Thrall or Jaina is that they have had time in the sun, and they have had their stories. But because Blizzard thinks that the fans expect to see them, the writers have to keep coming up with ways to try and keep them relevant and include them in the story. Their characters suffer as a result. Does anyone seriously enjoy mopey Thrall or bipolar Jaina? Bringing back dead legacy characters would probably just set them up for the same treatment.
âOld reliablesâ indeed.
1 Like