Garrosh > Sylvanas

It does make a strong contrast in hindsight. He ran an Orcish Horde, but Sylvanas was as Saurfang said, Blackhand’s successor in terms of ruthlessness and disregard for life. Garrosh I think needed more time before he was made Warchief. Some of what he said to Thrall was legitimate. But Thrall’s words also were legitimate.

It’s hard for any Orc who was told his bloodline is tainted, to transition to being the son of a hero; much to live up to that new legacy, and shift gears so quickly. Although I did not like Garrosh’s radical shift in Wrath, and his sudden hostility to Thrall felt it was forced; I firmly believe that if he’d been given the time to acclimate as a warrior he could of been a solid Horde character even now.

Thrall’s error was that he probably should of had him training in Wrath, defending Orgrimmar while Thrall, and Saurfang handled the Scourge with Vol’jin. Would this of prevented the Cataclysm and Pandaria wars? Likely.

The problem the Developers missed when they gave us BFA instead of the Black Empire and a ‘real’ Naga expansion is this. Faction Wars are for the most part, a strongly disliked and rejected concept that are only beloved by PVPers. I’ll agree with people that the franchise of Warcraft might of been built on it, but it’s grown beyond that time period.

They completely bungled the last expansion, and BFA was the first expansion I rolled my eyes at during the cinematic opening. Especially when Sylvanas started rambling about “what makes us strong”. Why? Because to quote the Quest Skip lines, “I’ve heard this tale before…”

Plus Mount Hyjal kinda happened.

The one thing I never could wrap my head around, was the opening spiel that “Peace between Alliance and Horde has all but faded.” Even in 2004 I had a record scratch moment of “Uh… what? Why?” PVP has taken far too great a toll on the lore and the game.

The only rationale I can explain it by is that Stormwind and Gilneas didn’t get the memo, and the Forsaken as a race became Blizzard’s only excuse on why the War would not end.

A single player race being continually used until BFA to justify the war continuing on ad nauseum, really gets stale really fast. THAT is why I am glad Sylvanas is gone and Calia is looking to be her replacement. We might just get some solid Forsaken HUMAN Lore (instead of angsty Hot-Topic Banshee Elf), that deals with old Lordaeron; with her departure.

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Says a forsaken.

Yes, but am I wrong? The Horde is going to be led by a personal friend of the Alliance leader, an orc with a thing for human mages and a handful of mealy-mouthed invertebrates quite happy to sleep at the feet of the enemy.

No more glorious battles. No more lok’tar. The Horde is muzzled and leashed.

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You have a point.

The horde died with Garrosh.

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Idk I’m a die hard slyvannas fan so my opinion is not in favor of everyone else

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Thrall > Garrosh

Garrosh was the single greatest leader the Horde ever had, dropping the manabomb was the right thing to do.

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Yeah, Garrosh was full of it. All he did, he did for his own ego, racism, and self-aggrandizement. As Saurfang said, he was the true heir of Blackhand & Gul’dan’s legacy.

You’re entitled to your own opinion.

But it’s fact she doesn’t care about her people or the Horde. So there’s that.

What you described is the TRUE Horde. Not this weak pathetic thing we call it today. Filled with pretty elves and furry woodland creatures.

Garrosh fought for the future of the TRUE Horde.

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Thrall was and still is a coward.

You mean the cheater?

blinks slowly at the elf

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Thrall is a dishonorable Orc

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Exactly.

Perfect example.

I’m really sad what they did for garrosh. He really had a thing going for him and a lot of cool storylines in cata that painted him in a good/but harsh light. And then they just make him ultra aggressive out of no where. Hopefully he makes an appearance in shadowlands like kael’thas(another shafted character) to get a cool redemption arc. As for sylvanas, she became very selfish but her selfishness caused her to care more for her people and by extension, the horde. But with whatever was going on in stormheim happened and she probably got in contact with the jailer via helya, it makes since how she gradually went back to caring less and less for everyone, but unfortunately a lot of that information isnt in game and in writing. Also, did not appreciate that retcon of wrathgate, I’m pretty sure she did not know about it as I recently replayed through it again and that’s how it feels.

he was a cry-baby from the very beginning, and didn’t even bother to do anything with himself until Thrall basically forced him to.

He was unqualified, and was an absolute horrible person to ever put into power.

Garrosh -never- should have been a warchief. :woman_shrugging:

Garrosh was Thralls biggest mistake.

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Agreed.

When he and his followers turned on the other races of the horde, that’s when he lost me. What he did before was horrible, but openly slaying our allies and friends? No.

Sylvanas did pretty much the same, but in her own way and with her own agenda.

Both were not qualified to lead us and both nearly brought us to ruin.

Dude.

He didn’t want Mantle of Warchief.

Thrall’s fault.

He should have refused to take it then.

I’m aware he didn’t want it, but the idiot still took it. Despite not being deserving of it, nor qualified for it.

Can scroll up to my eariler posts on the subject, I only responded cause someone necro replied to me.

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