From a narrative point, I think you’re correct. From a player perspective, this is when the faction war started to feel like it was ending. We’ve worked together to take on many great foes, and cross-faction gameplay was starting to make more and more sense.
It was a pretty interesting time back then – many players wanted to keep their decade-long game narrative “pure” in that sense, and Garrosh was offering that world.
Exactly. Garrosh is fundamentally incompatible with the world the other heroes of Azeroth, Horde and Alliance alike, were trying to build; one that finally moved on from endless conflict based on old hatreds. It’s partially why Thrall was so excited; here he was, an Orc pure and pristine, uncorrupted by the past! A little rough around the edges with his aggression, but that’s fine, it’ll buff out after he learns from Saurfang how things are done here!
Unfortunately, Thrall had a lesson to learn, too.
What’s your point? Some people liked him, others didn’t. I vividly remember a lot of people liked him because he was an orcs orc, and people liked that leading the horde. A worthy rival to varian. Some people didn’t like him. He had good and bad moments because the quest designers in stone talon weren’t aware he was going to be a villain.
Can you move on now? Maybe stop being sarcastic about people liking him every 5 minutes and add something of value to the topic?
He had been a villain in every single appearance up to that point, though.
Maybe the quest designers just didn’t play the game? Certainly not as Horde, at any rate.
You’re changing the argument. Are we arguing if he was a villain, or that nobody liked him?
He was depressed in TBC, I wouldn’t say that makes him a villain.
He challenged thrall because of a difference of opinion, a tradition which was entirely legal and both combatants agreed to.
Then he lead the horde against the lich king, definitely an aggressor to the alliance. Still served the horde well.
Cataclysm set him up to be leaning evil, with MoP leaning full tilt into it. He had admirable qualities, and they could’ve wrote him to be redeemable with saurfang as a mentor. But they just randomly made him racist against trolls and eventually all other races for… no reason but to make him a villain.
There was also that weird population of orcs on the forums that basically RP’ed as his supporters. We don’t like to acknowledge them, But saying “nobody liked him” is wrong
Garrosh was extremely unpopular with Horde players during BC and Wrath, the decision to make him “warchief” was also unpopular, and the Horde had to suffer through him for 5 expansions in a row, which is practically unforgivable on Blizzard’s part.
The only thing that would be worse is if they did it again.
Oh wait… they did.
This thread got interesting.
Garrosh was loved, unloved and loved again for all the right and wrong reasons.
First he was too nasty, then it looked like he was trying hard to be the leader people wanted and listening to advice, then he lost his mind and went full racist but also full explosive warrior power. The man was a seething sea of confusion.
I think we can all agree everyone was very wtf when Thrall stepped down and made him warchief. That had little logical sense. We got hopeful for a time and admired him but that went flat fast.
He is still admired for his strength, strategy and power as a warrior. If he didn’t fracture the Horde, he very likely would had conquered Kalimdor easily.
Honestly I’ma just say it…like I knew Garrosh existed, but not really. Not until like Cata. And even in Cata he wasn’t even pivotal. He was a big deal in MoP for obvious reasons.
Everyone’s experience in the early days of WoW varied because information spread differently/slower. I don’t really think your description of how Garrosh was this hated/awful character since inception is an accurate representation of the playerbase.
man cmon you guys didnt even give that character a chance to grow or do anything. You just hated him right out the gate and then they killed him off. he could of have an amazing arc if he were allowed to grow as a character
Garrosh couldn’t even conquer Draenor, which the first Horde managed to do without all the knowledge and advanced technology Garrosh brought with him.
I haven’t seen anything from him and it would be nice if there was such a thing. The Mag’har scenario even teases it.
Varian was also despised at the time…
You act like he’s the most hated character of all time and no one likes him. But that’s not true and don’t exaggerate. Ultimately, you’re right that he wasn’t liked from then on.
You’re putting this in the wrong light.
He certainly didn’t make many friends. I like Thrall, but the Horde was terrible under him. Garrosh brought resources, territory, etc. to the Horde in Cata.
The way you put it, the Horde must have been eliminated years ago, that’s not the case. Also, Garrosh has had quite a few victories in Cata and isn’t described as a tactical genius, but you can see that he learned in WotLK. But with Sylvanas, it’s the exact opposite - she’s portrayed as tactically smart, which she’s not.
It’s okay if you don’t know what’s good.
The “victories” in cata were to balance the map and all happened off-camera.
On-camera we saw Garrosh being an idiot and costing us victory in Twilight Highlands.
So…we aren’t at all taking into consideration the involvement of the Horde and alliance forces and resources that went in then?
Sorry, this feels like a subjective view.
If anything when we arrive we see how Garrosh had already advanced and the Draenei near extinction (again).
The only reason we were there was because Garrosh stupidly attacked present day another-universe Azeroth before even taking over Draenor.
Again: WORST GENERAL IN HISTORY
Since when did Garrosh wear a robed uniform?
yeah, ol’ Garrosh had soft spot for druids, I guess. Send him to Ardenweald where he can become a gardener, Blizzard!
Im willing to fight people over how great Garrosh is
Well, Garrosh himself lost every fight he ever entered, unless he cheated or fought a Pandaren, so I guess it’s good he has you to fight in his place.
I love that.
I think Thrall didn’t really learn his lesson. The idea of creating your own path, Thrall still likely feels guilty for setting Garrosh along the path Garrosh eventually took. Rather than mentor Garrosh, he never really taught Garrosh about the ideologies of the various tribes and clans within the Horde. As such, it may have been the case that Garrosh’s xenophobia stems from an unwillingness to trust his advisors in his eyes (they didn’t want to go to war, which is pitiful in orcish culture).
But that’s partially what makes Garrosh a good villain – he clearly had faults and was never able to overcome them. But in that same vein, that gave him a vision of a world he thought was best for his Horde. Fighting over resources is a means of survival in many ways, food, weapons, and economic power.
Even though his Shadowlands cinematic wasn’t animated well (it was one person, likely as a last minute project to give Garrosh a meaningful send-off), the content in the cinematic was very much that oldschool orcish pride that resonates with a lot of players – both Horde and Alliance.