Okay?
He still sabotaged our efforts every time he showed up during Wrath. Except ICC where he stood there doing nothing.
The only thing you’ve demonstrated in this thread is that you were NOT playing Horde during BC/Wrath/Cata.
It’s not that he died, it’s what he died FOR.
Do I have to bring out my old main? Because I will, lol.
How is testing our strength through battle, sabotage? It’s WARCRAFT lol.
Even Wrathion tried to get one of the factions destroyed by the other, because he thought it’d make us all stronger to face the Legion.
It’s a common, stupid trope in Warcraft, but it makes sense because it’s Warcraft, lol.
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Okay? Then Cairne died with the exact same potency; getting rid of a bad Warchief.
Orcish might is just one part of the reason the Horde stands against the Alliance, but it takes contributions from every member race to keep up with Team Blue.
What do Trolls bring to the table?
Heck, what do Pandas bring?
Because being tossed into a pointless battle that everyone can see is pointless strictly to assuage the ego of a petty tyrant or would-be Machiavelli is stupid. It works in the RTS 'cause you’ve gotta justify the multi-player, but in the grand story of an MMO everyone with a brain looked at Garrosh’s nonsensical fixation on FITE BAD BLUE MAN and was asking why the hell this idiot is anywhere close to the Warchief position.
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Especially since he’s also the worst general in the franchise’s history.
That’s a point made by the Argent folks during Trial of the Crusade, but both Varian and Garrosh go ahead with the Faction Champion’s fight anyway, and Tirion laments the pointless loss of life that only helps the Lich King afterwards.
I don’t get why people think the writing has to be perfect for people to enjoy it.
People like flawed characters, especially if you see where they are coming from.
I get some of you are hate-erect for Garrosh, but others really like him. Gul’dan, same deal.
Also, some of you, unsurprising from the Vulpera player, really, is that we played Horde to BE THE VILLAINS, shocking, I know. Especially in a game about manufacturing conflict so we can keep fighting.
Loas, witch doctors, subtlety, magic, durability…
Pandaren brought an entirely new discipline to the Horde and with it more reinforcements.
Again, every member race of the Horde has something to contribute to its survival.
Tirion’s original plan was that we would slaughter “the Argent Crusade’s most powerful knights” instead.
He was a pretty dim bulb, too.
I’m not saying Garrosh is a bad character in the narrative sense, I’m saying he was bad for the Horde. He was important to showcase that it takes more than legacy and hope to make a good leader, and that it’s important to be able to evaluate your leader for their actions.
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Then you never understood the Horde at all.
You’re an Alliance player, through-and-through, if you think of the Horde as “the villains”.
/thread
To play villains to the Alliance, for sure.
You mustn’t be familiar with the game Warcraft, Orcs Vs. Humans.
I played an Undead ffs, that’s pretty much their whole angle.
PvP is WHY I play Warcraft, even WoW.
Uh… The Tauren would like to raise objection here, counsel. Ain’t a one of them signed up to be the villains.
Garrosh was the Horde equivalent of Fandral Staghelm.
I just wish he’d gotten as little screen time as Fandral did.
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Garrosh in TBC wasn’t ready to become a leader and was forced into the role. He thought is lineage was tainted with weakness and was brash and violent because of it. Thrall came around and changed that narrative, which gave Garrosh confidence and refocused his pride of being an Orc.
In WOTLK, Garrosh felt working with the Alliance to march into Northrend was a bad idea. He wanted to conquer the Alliance then take up arms against the Lich King. Thrall dueled Garrosh to show that his strength wasn’t enough to take on the Lich King alone. (Garrosh was winning btw, but the fight was interrupted.) Garrosh had become a “true orc” at this time, he was more hotblooded and willing to fight – a complete turnaround from his TBC days. Garrosh often challenged his superiors, thinking that working with the Alliance would lead to the downfall of the Horde. He fought Varian many, many times due to this belief.
Thrall then went hiking for a bit and made Garrosh the Warchief. Garrosh was reluctant because he felt he was a warrior who belonged on the battlefield – he was awful at politics. Some things happened, and Garrosh taunted Cairne. This led to Cairne’s death by Magatha’s underhanded tactics. For as fierce as Garrosh was, he had honor and pride and wanted to see Magatha dead for stealnig his victory and cheating Cairne’s life. He wanted to show the Horde their leader was strong and had their best interests in mind.
Garrosh escalated is attacks against the Aliiance. Garrosh gained power and influence as more orc clans joined the Horde. With some insane military power, the Horde was able to blockade Kalimdor. This eventually leads to the bombing of Theramore. Garrosh squarely sees himself as a true orc Warchief at this point, calling Thrall a weak pacifist and blaming Thrall’s weakness for the Horde’s past problems.
This brings up to MOP, and the war between the two factions. After years of warmongering, many of the leaders of the Horde and a significant population rebelled against Garrosh. Vol’jin declared a rebellion and Lor’themar was finishing up Isle of Thunder stuff. Garrosh had an interest in Pandarian artifacts and had them transported to Orgrimmar (Spoils of Pandaria). This included the Heart of Y’Shaarj, which was put in his chambers; but only after he dumped the heart into the pool in Vale of Eternal Blossoms (cinematic). Garrosh was likely being influenced by the Y’Shaarj’s heart after this moment, as he became even more crazy and xenophobic.
Garrosh had new powers and granted them to Malkorak. Paragons of the Klaxxi were supporters of the Old Gods and were charged with protecting the Heart. Eventually, Thrall sought to fight Garrsoh in Garrosh’s chambers, but Thrall was easily beaten. As adventurers fought Garrosh, Garrosh sough more power and eventually became twisted by the heart of Y’Shaarj. (We won.)
In the trials after these events, Garrosh escaped. He did a timey-whimey thing and the Iron Horde came to be. But Garrosh was defeated by Thrall dishonorably.
Shadowlands happened, we see Garrosh being tortured for untold time. Before Garrosh did his best Varian cosplay, Garrosh exclaimed that he’d do it all again for the sake of the Horde.
In short, Garrosh was a fantastic Warchief by orc standards. He was “oldschool” Horde where the strong rise up. His path from weak-mindedness to unwavering pride shows he really believed what he did was best for the Horde. Garrosh absolutely committed war crimes, but you could not claim Garrosh was weak. He amassed a military force that could have crushed the Alliance if not for the combined efforts of the rebel Horde and the Alliance under Darkspear Rebellion.
I think that’s why people like him so much. He was a big sweaty orc swinging Gorehowl screaming “For the Horde!” and meant it. He simply embodied what the warcraft orcs are all about.
As a side note, I think it’s canon that the version of Garrosh we have is the “worst version.” Other timelines of Garrosh show him to be a god-tier Warchief without the war crimes. The dude is an absolute unit even in the worst outcomes. (Edit: Anachronos claimed this.)
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Yep. Shame the writers for this franchise don’t know how to write a proper leader, goes from Warchief that cares about all of the people of the Horde into orc 1930’s German socialist leader in 0.2 seconds. He had great potential before that.
Unfortunately also the victim of bad writing.
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Except Fandral never once actually cared about the Alliance, or even the Night Elven people after the Battle of the Shifting Sands thousands of years ago before WoW, so, not really. His own son was disemboweled by giant bugs before his very eyes, and he snapped and pledged allegiance to the Old Gods.
He’s the reason Malfurion was stuck in the dream. He was feeding him tainted morrowgrain from the Emerald Nightmare.
Tyrande couldn’t do anything because Night Elven society was sexist and males were the leaders, so he did that to keep control.
He was a traitor before WoW even starts.
The end result might have been the same, but for Garrosh it was a slow burn and turn like with Arthas Menethil. I’d argue he’s closer to Arthas. Good intentions, but ended up paving his own way to hell.
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Thank you. I’ve been wracking my brain for a good half hour trying to come up with a good alliance comparison for Garry and completely forgot about ol’ Fandy.
The problem with Garrosh is he came at the wrong time; by the time of his arrival, ‘that kind of orc’ was no longer acceptable. Not by Azeroth, not by the Alliance, not even by the Horde.
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