Fyr'alath the Dreamrender in pvp

PVP Arenas
41

You’re right, certain abilities are going to hit main hand only. My mistake on that.

As far as mutilate/dw obliterate go, they still hit main hand + off hand with the off hand by default being weighted at 50% reduced power compared to main hand. For mutilate, this is reduced an additional 50% in the abilitie’s attack power coefficient, effectively putting it at 25% of the main hand’s power.

I mathed this out below to make sure I wasn’t crazy or hallucinating :woozy_face:

(50.9355% of Attack power) + (50.9355% of Attack power) * 0.5
is actually 50.9355% of main hand attack power + 50.9355% of off hand attack power reduced by 50%.

On my rogue, I have a 454 main hand with 384.7 dps, a 441 off hand with 340.8 dps, 9405 agility, 21.02% vers, and a tooltip of 9,622.
so 384.7*6+9405=11713.2 and 340.8*3+9405/2=5724.9, reduced again by 50% to 2862.45. If we had battle shout, we would multiply here by 1.05 to increase weapon attack power by 5%.
11713.2*.509355+2862.45*.509355*1.2102=8984.74
Now you might be thinking that we tooltip at 9622, why is it only 8984.74?
Assassination rogue has a 2% and then a 5% increase to all abilities as part of their hidden passive.

Name             : Assassination Rogue (id=137037) [Spell Family (8), Passive, Hidden] 
#1 (id=179721)   : Apply Aura (6) | Add Percent Modifier (108): Spell Direct Amount (0)
                   Base Value: 2 | Scaled Value: 2 | PvP Coefficient: 1.00000 | Target: Self (1)
#20 (id=1083091)  : Apply Aura (6) | Add Percent Modifier (108): Spell Direct Amount (0)
                   Base Value: 5 | Scaled Value: 5 | PvP Coefficient: 1.00000 | Target: Self (1)

So we have 8984.74*1.05*1.02=9622.65, basically right on the money.

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42

Not at all, the dw classes work differently as you point out for Assassination and Frost. Only reason I was aware of it was from sims on all three of the rogue specs for raid and Frost for fun.

Hmmm, I’m not entirely sure it works this way for Frost, there used to be a passive that increased the hit % and off hand damage, they may have baked it in like that hidden Assassination mod. Just basing that off sim weights mind you, its been 10 months since I’ve looked at a dw frost sim.

Thanks for taking a look at that, these are interesting things to know.

43

It does. I think these dual wield specialization passives have been gone for some time.
main hand attack power is weapon dps * 6 + main stat, and off hand attack power is half of that. I ran a quick sim for frost using the T31 dual wield profile, and off hand weapon dps was weighted at about 36% of main hand weapon dps. If every ability hit with both main hand and off hand, this would be close to 50%. It being lower for dw frost is likely due to chill streak, soul reaper, and the avalanche talent seemingly only hitting with the main hand.

For my warrior, off hand dps is 47.5% of main hand (not that I have gear), but this drops to 15% or so simming the warrior T31 profile, since only about 35% of the damage accounts for the off hand due to the tiers shift towards bloodthirst/bloodbath.

44

Ah ok, that’s a lot more clear.

This is true, and avalanche is (I think) tied only to spell power. If I remember right the season 1 frost set buffed either Obliterate or Frost Strike which may be why I got a higher value for OH with dw frost.

They also keep pumping damage into frost fever which also degrades wep values for OH, indirectly in aoe situations.

45

Avalanche uses attack power nowadays. AP Coefficient: 0.22470. Generally the only attack power classes that will have some spell power abilities will also have it part of their passive to convert ap to sp.

Brewmaster, Windwalker, Ret, Prot, Enhance, Guardian, and Feral are the only classes with it. Protection paladin and Enhance have a 101% conversion of attack power to spell power, and the others have 96%. :dracthyr_shrug:

Here’s the effect for prot paladin as an example.

Name             : Protection Paladin (id=137028) [Spell Family (10), Passive, Hidden] 
Effects          :
#7 (id=260918)   : Apply Aura (6) | Override Spell Power per Attack Power% (366)
                   Base Value: 101 | Scaled Value: 101 | PvP Coefficient: 1.00000 | Misc Value: 126 | Misc Value 2: 0x1 | Target: Self (1)
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46

So from what I can see… Axe seems hella Mid? :<

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47

Yeah, both the mark and rage are at 30% effectiveness in pvp, and the rage locks you in place for 3 seconds during which you’re locked out of all your abilities and cannot cancelaura

48

Good thing Warriors aren’t killing me then.

It’s okay to admit that Arms is busted my friend.

49

it’s okay to be wrong Aswell :slight_smile: never had a easier time playing all my casters into warrior just bullying the little sword wielders. had a entire triple melee lobby on my frost mage give up on killing me because they couldn’t catch me. good casters can run a lobby unless it’s hunter city I hate hunters. The real busted classes are demo,sub,bm and dh also destro with 4 set slaps.

50

Aside from being crap in pve. For PvP it’s useless and actually hinders you more than anything . Cool Tmog…. That’s it. Sadface

51

Should have just been a strength proc like the original version.

52

Hidden passives why am I just now hearing of this! Wonder if warrior has some hidden passive too?

53

All specs have a hidden passive. Some specs even have 2, but the hidden passive is always the same name as the spec.

Example:

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54

That’s wild so these modifiers don’t show up on tooltips? Or am I misunderstanding?

55

Tooltips take all these modifiers into account

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