If we are talking about the hardcore progression guilds who are going to be 40 consistent players with no turn over only consisting of the best raiders on the server? Maybe… If we are talking about your average semi-hardcore group that can field 30 consistently and have occasionals/pugs for the other spots where sometimes you lose someone to poaching/other commitments? I think not.
Also if the Beta has shown us anything it’s that a lot of the Pserver data is wrong when it comes to things like when abilities are triggered, armor values, resistances, the finer details of how mechanics work… There was a lot found to be wrong. The higher end the content the less exposure there was to it so it stands to reason that the farther into the raids you go the more incorrect the Pserver data will prove to be
Unfortunately many of us casuals will be half blues half exalted bg epics.
Meaning I’ll have to be punching 150% my weight class to have a chance… Just like vanilla lol.
My endgame 2h had 64 dps, the PvE dingus 2h had 94 dps…
its not that the raids were too hard, its that people burnt out on the game before they ever got that much gear
getting geared is a massive time commitment
i bet the top guilds will roll through basically everything shortly after its released, including naxx
the semi hardcore crowd will take longer, and many will break up due to taking too long/people moving on. the casual crowd still wont get past razor gore
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C’thun is similar in difficulty to Yogg Saron +1/0
Pre-nerf C’thun, yes. Both were very close to unkillable.
Post-nerf C’thun (i.e., the version that was killed) is not anywhere near as hard as no-light Yogg. Only two guilds in the entire world killed Yogg 0 as current content before the release of ToC.
Yogg 0 is also probably the most mechanically challenging fight of all time, either that or Kael’thas from TBC. C’thun has real mechanics, but none of them have the real sophisticated interplay and snowball effects of the Yogg 0 mechanics.
By the time people are in full naxx, if you are only in blues/bg rep epics, well the time investment difference is reflected in the gear.
I expect to be in Rank 13, by the time people are in Naxx. If not R14.
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Outside of raiding there isn’t much opportunity for competitive gear aside from R14, which I won’t have time for these days. T.5 and exalted epics will be my BIS.
That was always my biggest gripe with vanilla, luckily many others will be in my position so I’ll still have good fights.
MC/BWL/Ony gear will be common among both the casual and hardcore raider, the better raiders will then move to AQ20/40/ZG then to Naxx but the first group will still be 90%+ of the raider playerbase.
The way you handle content droughts in Vanilla is to spend an enjoyable 3 months leveling up that alt you never got around to.
You’ll have every chance to get Rank 10, Crafted Gear, and MC/Dire Maul level stuff at the same time as others.
Phase 1 (Classic Launch)
- Molten Core
- Onyxia
- Maraudon
Phase 2
- Dire Maul
- Azuregos
- Kazzak
- Honorable Kills, DHKs, PVP Rank rewards
Nothing in the next 2 phases is catastrophically out of line vs PvP loot.
Phase 3
- Blackwing Lair
- Darkmoon Faire
- Darkmoon deck drops begin
- Alterac Valley and WSG launch
Phase 4
- Zul’Gurub
- Green Dragons
- Arathi Basin launches
Then we have the ‘end game’
Phase 5
- Ahn’Qiraj War Effort begins
- Ahn’Qiraj raids open when the war effort dictates
- Dungeon loot reconfiguration: Tier 0.5 Dungeon gear, Relics, drop rates and location changes
Phase 6
- Naxxramas
- Scourge Invasion
- World PVP Objectives (EPL, Silithus) launch
At which point you should be into (if you focus on just pvp or whatever) higher ranks.
Thats at least my hope. I wont be raiding hard if at all, my loots going to be pvp in all likely hood.
They changed how stats like hit and crit worked with TBC, so there was quite a bit of difference by level 70, also my man, you’re forgetting all the gem slots TBC gear had. If you were still in T3 at level 70 you were doing something really really wrong, as even the blue dungeon sets were better especially once you put gems in them.
I’m curious what the T3 stats would be at 70 with the change in crit/hit rating ratio, as well as accounting for any gems that could be socketed into T4.
Yes, I’m Vanilla it was a base %. Each item had 1% hit or 1% crit @L60.
In TBC they changed from % to rating, and the total amount of hit/crit rating on the T4 was equal to the percentages I mentioned. 9 hit rating was 1% and 14 crit rating was 1%. Look up the set pieces on Classic dB if you don’t believe me.
Your base crit/hit appears to drop as you level, if you keep the same stats and go up your crit/hit drops because you’re using the same stats from previous levels, on higher mobs. This is likely the driving force behind why they initially changed from % to rating when they launched TBC.
In vanilla getting an item at 55 that gave 1% crit would still give you 1% crit if worn at L60 because it was a static percentage. So if they never made the change to rating, the T3 would have been insanely OP, even at L70. The change to rating made it so the gears stats were diminished if worn beyond L60.
I understand how crit/hit rating vs percent works. You were comparing those crit/hit stats side by side as though they were the same when they weren’t. 20stam at 60 = 20 stam at 70, 20str = 20str , etc. 1%crit at 60 is not the same as 1%crit at 70. It takes more crit/hit rating to get 1%crit at 70 which means more of the gears value is tied up in crit/hit. Also this comparison doesn’t count for the ramp up in weapon dps or the amount of spellpower and stats that was added to caster weapons in bc to make weapons meaningful for casters as they are for other classes. And you still didn’t account for the gems.
I get your argument, but I think you are cherry picking stats to try and artificially strengthen your position
Additionally players had no joke more than double the HP in TBC making the stats of T4 a lot less impressive than T3 for PVP use.
Not sure how they think its like lfr. You have to decurse and one moron can wipe the raid. Mana conservation is key. Mechanics are not as hard but gearing, consumables and understanding your rotation is more difficult. Retail you just look up your rotation and your good. You dont have to adjust for if i am going to run out of mana. I guess war and rogues are the only two that dont have resource issues. Also gear isnt as easy to understand. You have to get a certain amoount of pentration to cap then build second stats.
Anyone who has never done anything but LFR and steps into Molten Core thinking it will be of similar difficulty is going to be in for a rude awakening. It’s going to be funny to watch. MC is very basic and not difficult but it is still much harder than modern WoW LFR. It requires coordination and leadership and most players knowing their roles and performing them at a minimum level of competence, none of which can be said for LFR.
Yeah bro. I can’t wait to see each guild encounter their first firelord or surger. I wonder how many are going to try to clear down the ramp instead of jumping down. How will they handle the flame imps? They seem to think on pservers people never wipe. That there’s not people new to vanilla or haven’t played in 10 years. It’s gonna be a crap show when guilds who haven’t practiced for classic get in there and I can’t wait.
LOL I bet most of the people on this thread don’t even know how expensive t3 is to make. It cost a small fortune in mats…