Druidic death magic. Not raising the dead.
We know the Well of eternity elevated the form of trolls. but it is less certain to say that is the source of their long life.
Aging
Most night elves are, by the standards of other races, ancient. Because of their previous immortality, some night elves are more than ten thousand years old, which is older than the entirety of human and dwarven civilization put together.[60] Though the immortality of the night elves has ended, much of its cultural impact remains, and many amongst the night elves seek for a way of regaining it.[22][43] After the Cataclysm, both Malfurion and Jarod Shadowsong, alive during the War of the Ancients and with more than a thousand years age difference between each other, have been feeling minor, but increasingly consistent aches and pains due to aging. Jarodâs wife, also from the same era, passed away due to illness tied to aging.[61] The night elves are now aging normally,[62] rather than at an accelerated rate.
Looks like Night Elves donât have an extended lifespan at all.
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⊠I donât see how that proves that. They age⊠but slowly. Thatâs called an extended life span lol.
The Nightborne just have a lot more shared cultural norms with the BEs than NEs.
Both their communities are strongly reflective of the Ancient Highborne Empire (with the Nightborne literally being a lingering vestige of that civilization). Both have an extremely strong relation to the Arcane and develop technology based on that type of Magic. Both have strong ties to Arcane wells, as well as having experienced mana-addiction and mana-withdrawal due to those energy sources. When the Nightborne joined the BEs amongst the Horde, it was before Teldrassil, and thus had the shared experiences of having their civilization decimated and having to try to rebuild (and change) to fit a quickly changing world (as well as having a beloved leader betray them to forces of the Fel).
Even though theyâre genetically closer to the Nightborne than the BEs, the NEs have a long history of being extremely hostile towards civilizations that revolve around the Arcane (especially Elven ones). They are also largely stagnant technologically, as the advancement of technology all too often contradicts their highly Druid oriented civilization. Finally, never underestimate just how much arrogant elves take issue with other arrogant elves. Seriously, the primary contention between the NEs and BEs essentially boils down to two pompous rich people looking down their nose at eachother (and hating the other for doing the same). The Nightborne are no different in this regard.
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Actually, we do.
From the original Warcraft III Manual:
- In time, a primitive tribe of nocturnal humanoids cautiously made their way to the edges of the mesmerizing, enchanted lake. The feral, nomadic humanoids, drawn by the Wellâs strange energies, built crude homes upon its tranquil shores. Over time, the Wellâs cosmic power affected the strange tribe, making them strong, wise and virtually immortal.
And re-confirmed in Warcraft: Chronicle Volume I, Page 93:
- Mesmerized by their discovery, the dark trolls settled along the Well of Eternity's shores. Over generations, the energies radiating from the lake suffused the troll's flesh and bones, elevating their forms to match their graceful spirits. They transformed into highly intelligent and virtually immortal beings.
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So we know that Night Elves are not long lived due to druidism. Thanks!
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Even though I disagree, thank you for posting something on-topic.
I think my biggest hang up on the Nightborne culture are two things. 1. Given their life span, there are probably Nightborne and Kaldorei who are related. I mean, you can have Kaldorei/Nightborne twins, given the correct circumstances. Also, Nightborne faith is unclear, do they still worship Elune? I do not doubt that Elune probably has less relevance, but I canât image the faith is gone completely.
This is vague. Virtually immortal can be 4,000 years.
We donât know that. In fact, Rhastakhan is long lived because of his dealings with his loa, which is a form of Druidism.
Extremely vague. Vague enough that I have argued the other direction before, that âvirtuallyâ was just flavor text, and that the Night Elves were actually always immortal because of their connection to the Well of Eternity, and that Nordrassil cutting them off from the new Well of Eternity Illidan made actually necessitated Nozdormuâs blessing to replace the immortality they already should have had.
I vaguely remember collecting a clickie treasure or high-priced vendor item in Suramar that was described as a small Elune statuette which was likely kept in secret. It made me infer that some nightborne might still revere her, but theyâre privately ashamed of it because itâs no longer âin fashionâ to do so.
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In regards to life-span, youâre not wrong. Both the NEs and the Nightborne have reaped the benefits (and suffered the consequences) of having drastically artificially lengthened lifespans. However, both of them have now recently been denied the very source of their power that has allowed them that lifespan, and are going to have to adjust the way they live to meet with the reality that they canât just live a life on pause anymore. Time is now a finite resource that they will have to contend with, and honestly ⊠the NEs donât seem to be handling this new reality very wellâŠ
The BEs may not be of the same generation as the Nightborne or the NEs, but they do have experience dealing with the consequences of time (and their lifespans are probably closer to the length of time an elf can expect to naturally live; they are not the Eradar by any stretch). This factor may be attractive to a race looking to reintegrate into a world theyâve been isolated from; and will need to adjust for aging.
Also, Faith is one thing, but culture is something very different. You can have two people who worship the same Gods, but practice their faith in a way that is VASTLY different. This is the case between the NEs and the Nightborne; one extremely druidic culture, one extremely arcane culture (two cultures, that for nearly 10k years ⊠werenât really compatible with one another).
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Getting back on topic then, you made a claim that welcoming Undead Night Elves would mean the Night Elves would have less reverence to Elune. You also made claims that Elune abhors the Undead. You neither proved either claim, or provided any reference for either statement throughout this whole thread.
Which I pointed out before, but you didnât respond to:
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Iâm pretty sure I did respond to that, that you ignored.
Bwonsamdi is a Loa of Death who despises Undeath because it goes against the natural order. Druids, and by extension Night Elves, and Elune herself, seek to preserve that Balance.
This isnât a difficult concept to grasp. Making the Night Elves suddenly welcoming of Undeath ruins the race.
I didnât ignore it, I just called it into question:
But that looked over that Bwonsamdi isnât Elune:
You still havenât provided a statement that says Elune abhors the Undead. Additionally, you havenât even proved that Elune believes in the same kind of âBalanceâ that Bwonsamdi does. And third:
You have not proved any connection between the statements âMaking the Night Elves suddenly welcoming of Undeathâ and âNight Elves would have less reverence to Elune.â
If the Night Elves do not have less reverence to Elune then their race isnât ruined.
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They are both nature deities associated with Death. Bwonsamdi sees Undeath as an insult because it is. It is unnatural. It is a corruption of the natural world.
Because thatâs a given.
The Balance is the Balance. It is not subject to interpretation.
Yes I have.
Rastakhan was specifically a paladin. The trolls who worshiped Rezzan were Priests and Paladins. No druidism involved.
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LOL. Dealing with Loa and Wild Gods is Druidism. Rastakhan was a Paladin in game mechanics only. Game mechanics are not lore.
Elune is a Loa. Elune is druidism. which made you incorrect when stating that Cenarius is not powerful due to Elune, because he is empowered by Druidism.
I donât think you know what a druid is.
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Bwonsamdi raises Undead all the time.
Not it isnât. And hence your own earlier rebuttal:
Which also applies to the following:
Yes it is.
No you havenât.
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To reinforce this fact:
Zandalari prelates are Zandalari paladins. The prelates serve Rezan, and they are the highest order of holy warriors to serve any loa. Their path is the elite, taking only those gifted from birth with prowess in battle and gifted by the loa, and crafting champions of light to defend their empire. The prelates do not have any openings or handouts. After Rezanâs death, the prelates are cut off from his power except for a handful of his followers.[2]
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Is Bwonsamdi really concerned with balance? I took his statements to mean that by going too far, Sylvanas is causing a lot of deaths now but going too far means nobodyâs left to be born, meaning he gets fewer souls in the long run. And heâs not even getting as much of that short-term bonus because sheâs raising them before he can claim anything.
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