Please add Frostwhelp’s Indignation (BFA Azerite Trait) to this talent. It was what made it worth taking in BFA and was a very fun build. You already added Magus of the Dead to Army of the Damned for Unholy so do the same from Frost pls. And buff Pillar of Frosts duration back to 15s. 12s is too short.
I’ve given up hoping for that addition.
Maybe it’s still a possibility, but as of now… 
1 Like
relax, dk are not appearing on 2s pvp ladder and are in last place in top15 specs in 3s
but people here say it’s fine the way it is.
3 Likes
Buff glacial advance and make it work with Icecap.
Glacial advance:
-Make next GA after pillar of frost used hit X% harder.
-Make it apply 5 stacks of razor ice if using 2h.
-Make it interact with the Eradicating blow conduit
-Make it interact with Unleashed Frenzy conduit
Icecap:
-Add GA to the cooldown reduction of pillar of frost.
Goal here is to revive two dead talents.
If gathering storm is an option glacial advance will never be taken pretty much.
Its not what made it worth taking. FWI existed the entirety of BFA but Icecap wasnt good until corruptions and the massive secondary stat bonuses that you could get to make it work. Icy Citadel also played a part in it because your next Pillar would clip if secondaries permitted which would increase str even further.
FWI would have to provide somewhere around ohhhh… 2000dps. Thats the difference that Icecap was simming from other talent options for me. With how Obliterate works, you need the KM procs or something that will overcome the lack of KM procs. Period. Icecap doesnt do that.
I think Frost has more dead talents than the two listed. Hypothermic Presence is perhaps the worst talent they’ve ever designed.
They really need to rework the talent for Frost honestly that doesn’t break the PvP portion of it. Bitter Chill is strong. But there is just a lot of talents that just doesn’t feel good to use.
The reason why Glacial Advance is a talent with a cooldown where Epidemic does neither of the two is beyond me. Icecap needs something else other than FWI to get it working since Obliteration saves you a rune per Obliterate (with KM proc) used along with Frost Strike granting KM proc. Icecap merely increases the long-term value of Runic Power. Something that I think Frost needs: a long-term value of Runic Power.
There was also Icy Citadel that Kelliste covered and among other things that made Icecap work in BfA. In Shadowlands, with Icy Citadel and FWI going away, this is obviously not the case. 
2 Likes
Remind me: was that the “I have to make sure I’m not facing any mobs that aren’t in combat” trait?
shudders
Icecap was literally a 2k dps loss for me… 2k. Icecap is just not a good option because it does neither of what you want in the spec. Either more KM procs, or something that doesnt require KM procs.
Hypothermic is only about 120 dps less for me than whatever my dk is wearing at the moment.
I can dig a lot more into it with my actual frost gear later, I gotta get some more work done on my car.
Aside from baseline being better with higher cd reduction, this was mainly in thoughts towards an m+ build where currently with the seasonal affix you can get huge amounts of crit that would make this viable.
The spec has a lot of damage locked behind procs or uptime. Icecap doesnt really fit into the spec. The only place I can see it being good is with Frostscythe. But you probably arent going to get to some of the dps numbers that people are seeing in m+ doing 83k dps as affliction or some others getting up to 100k dps.
Thats burst, which icecap isnt suited for as it promotes more of a sustained dps type if gameplay. And yes, your aoe dmg comes from frostscythe, remorseless winter, and FWI which in BFA at least did huge amounts of damage on top of giving you mastery. Like I said, a m+ spec where running frostscythe doesnt gut you.
A breath build can definitely hit 50-60k dps.
Its not burst, its just really large pulls. Breath is both the highest st and aoe option that Frost has, Icecap doesnt have a chance at that. Frostscythe only hits 5 enemies, Howling Blast damage is behind Rime, so all you really have is Remorseless winter and FF for reliable aoe damage if you dont take Breath.
Again, Icecap was 2k behind a breath build for me. 2k. It doesnt give you KM procs which most of Obliterates damage is behind so Obliteration is a good option to force those procs, and it doesnt give anything to where not getting KM procs is a hinderance like BoS does.
Icecap is just dead. Frostwhelps wouldnt help it, and neither would Icy. It just doesnt benefit what the spec needs.
We already beat that horse at the start of the expansion. I kind of wish they’d do something else with Icecap like increase your haste by a certain amount every Pillar so it catches up to BoS and Obliteration.
Ok, I feel like you just ignored everything people have said in this thread. Frostwhelps was typically your highest damage in aoe on top of giving you 1100 mastery (wow! thats a lot of mastery!) in addition you ran frostscythe which it doesnt matter if you get killing machine with frostscythe, just that you crit, as it already does frost damage. And you get a metric ton of crit from the seasonal powers. So if you add a strong cleave aoe spell that frost doesnt currently use, something that would likely be tuned to be almost your top damage in aoe (Frostwhelps) on top of giving you mastery which improves the rest of your aoe then yes, Icecap would be a viable m+ option. Your current sims dont matter because the changes to the ability would be extensive and you lack about 25% of the crit that the seasonal affix could give you. Of course it would be tuned differently as scaling has changed from bfa, but thats semantics unless they actually release it.
And side note, the 83k dmg is burst. People do not and would not consistently pull 83k dps even if you pulled half the dungeon back to back because they use cooldowns like darkglare and dark soul to peak that high.
Then run it if you think its so good. Frostscythe hits so many people of course its going to be a great option… oh wait it only hits 5 enemies which is not good aoe, thats just cleave damage.
I know how frostwhelps played, I also know that Frostscythe doesnt need KM procs to reduce the cd of Pillar with crits and only 1 enemy needs to be crit to gain the reduction. Its still crap and frostwhelps would not bridge that gap. Again you would have to overcome a LOT of damage.
What I simmed is important because that is what the option would have to make up. If its 2k behind BoS with Frostscythe and Icecap than BoS thats what Frostwhelps would have to make up. Thats not going to happen. That was only on 3 mobs, let alone 5 or more mobs that happen in dungeon pulls.
Ive also had 108% mastery NOW with a trinket and Pelagos when I was kyrian and it doesnt actually increase Frostscythe damage that much. I actually tried it out, while you do get Pillar windows more often, the damage just isnt there. Its garbage, move on.
I don’t think its good lmao thats why I want Frostwhelps to make it good.
Idek what this means aside from you not really knowing how Icecap works and using this sentence to say you do. You don’t need KM for Obliterate to count either so a weird thing to mention, and the main benefit of frostscythe is that the multiple crits will reduce the cd multiple times.
So what were your sim parameters? A 5 min 3 stacked aoe? A 20s 3 stacked aoe? You saying you simmed it could mean anything really. Not to mention your sim APL’s likely suck as they are developed for frost dk which is an unpopular spec so people do not update them or check them for errors. All sims are taken with a grain of salt and you can’t sim m+ because of the downtime that varies. Thats why you never see aoe sims being mentioned, only single target ones and those are often inaccurate with less played specs like enhancement shaman and frost dk.
In part because of the lack of Frostwhelps, in part that your trinket actually sucks, and probably because you arent playing the spec the best you could.
Then why are all you are asking for is Frostwhelp? It would have to make up a huge amount of dps which it wont.
All you are doing is giving excuse after excuse after excuse.
Yes, Obliterate also reduces icecap with a crit, but why would you want to crit with obliterate without KM? It boosts Obliterate damage through the roof. But yeah sure, buff up a low base damage a little bit for some reason.
Multiple crits from the same Frostscythe do not reduce Pillar cd more. That would mean a KM Frostscythe would reduce Pillar by 20 seconds if you got a crit off on all 5 enemies. Hitting 2 enemies doesnt reduce it by 8 seconds either. Just tried it, 50 sec cd left, hit 2 target dummies with a KM Frostscythe, reduce to 46 seconds. Thats 4 seconds. So dont try to claim that someone doesnt know how Icecap works when you clearly dont and havent actually played it in all its time or if you did never understood its mechanics in the first place.
Again its just excuse after excuse. Frostwhelp just played a part in Icecap and was not the main reason for its play. It was clipping Icy Citadel, it was also getting the crit AND haste levels required for it.
The lack of Frostwhelps has no bearing on 108% mastery not actually providing a lot of damage to Frostscythe. At 51% mastery at the moment, and not even in my frost gear or having razorice for another 15% frost damage. Its only hitting for around 380. You can calculate what that damage would be at 108% mastery if you really wanted to, but its not that high to put Frostscythe up there. Pelagos would be providing somewhere around what Frostwhelps would probably provide and the higher mastery you have the less effective it is after 76%. You wouldnt be getting 1100 mastery now per use, thats around 90% mastery alone.
But sure, make excuses for everything. Icecap is garbage and would be garbage even with Frostwhelps. Not to mention you have no clue how Icecap works literally. It only lowers its cd one per button press no matter how many crits you get.
The Arch discord is famous for using bad api and insisting its good. Skulker showing top st in legion when it wasn’t, breath being over then under valued due to item interactions not being calculated properly, 2h frost being zmg op in this expac when it wasnt, unholy getting gutted in legion several times because bad api including the artifact exploit. It also got trashed bc someone summed out that using clawing shadows at certain times with no wounds up was a dps gain. DnD window, which makes sense if the pack is going to die fast the damage priority changes. Couldn’t have that, please nerf.
Back in September there was a 3 day discussion about how the API was bad and they used that data to present an argument to nerf frost, which sort of wrecked the spec for the expac in pve.
Long story short; no class should be tuned around the aim metric. It’s a general guideline at best and has been since inception. It’s a great way to cut costs for the company though.
Icecap is actually making a bit of a comeback. It’s not that far behind other options for single target.