Frost was always clunky.
Just play Blood DK and turn brain off.
Life better.
Blood is tank. I am sure ppl wants to dps.
Frost desperately needs a complete overhaul.
Start with nuking Breath of Sindragosa out of existence. This talent is awful, feels awful and locks you in a plastyle that forces everyone to play around you. If they are hellbent on having something Sindragosa-related (which I understand, she was THE frostwyrm), have it be something different. Either consume all your available RP and deal a cone of frost dmg based on the amount consumed, then give you runes also based on the amount consumed. Say, if you consumed 100 RP, it gives you 3 runes back.
Or, should anyone wanna hear a crackhead idea, have it be a single channel, like the evokers have. Channel for 2 seconds and breathe frost on your enemies, applying debuffs and whatnot.
And honestly,
Just also nuke dual wield out of the class and balance it around 2hand only. People can play DH, rogue, monk and warrior if they wanna dual wield. Just rip the damn bandaid.
“But back in Wra-” Wrath was almost 20 years ago, move on.
Instead of using this DnD song and dance, have that oblit is purely single target and buff its damage, and add an skill that is effectively an AoE oblit. Costs 2 runes, consumes killing machine for an autocrit, etc. Call it Annihilation, done.
Also have that Oblit/Annihi scale dmg with crit chance, make it a melee Chaos Bolt. Crit would turn into a MUCH more powerful stat for us with that.
11 Likes
YES. Frost feels so wrong with two quick 1 handers. A massive 2 handed sword wielding juggernaut of death and cold is how I see Frost spec. Slamming you with massive damage if you let them get close enough. (Just need to buff their tankiness too, because it’s abysmal right now).
7 Likes
While I understand the sentiment behind this statement, this is a bit too far. 
1 Like
NO.
Add DW back to the CLASS so it isn’t locked in just frost spec!
4 Likes
Hungering Cold is just Blinding Sleet, and then there is Remorseless Winter.
The more things that scale with mastery just brings down the damage of the things you want to hit hard.
What kind of argument is this? The real argument is that DW was always the preferred weapon of choice if you actually wanted to do damage outside of 1 raid tier in WoD. So you would be taking away something that is a staple of Frost DK’s and doing a survival hunter with it for no reason other than you hate DW. You can go play another spec if you dont want to DW.
Where is that damage going to come from? Because this is assuming you dont want any other balancing passes done other than just making it scale with crit as well, boosting its damage further. So where is that going to come from?
That doesnt really do anything for Blood or Unholy though, its just a self nerf like 2h has been for Frost. Thats why they made specs weapon specific in the first place, so that people wouldnt self nerf themselves and then complain about the result.
And? Transmog doesn’t add any DPS either but it’s a highly important RP function.
4 Likes
Except you arent asking for a transmog option, you are asking for Blood and Unholy to have the option to use 2 1h weapons.
You arent new to not be familiar with the complaints about 2h Frost not being good for going into 4 expansions now. People would absolutely complain that DW Blood and Unholy would be DoA which they would be. They arent designed for it. All strikes would be reduced by 25% which a 2nd runeforge would not make up for.
Maybe Clawing Shadows wouldnt be reduced because its more like a spell than a melee strike, but why even tempt it. You know full well people would be complaining about it.
I say go for it though. Just open the option for Blood and Unholy to use DW. Why not? I mean a 25% self nerf is nothing right?
Shows what you know.
The factor that causes such disparity in frost between DW and 2H is that one of our main damage elements relies on auto-attack. Blood and Unholy do not have that reliance. 2 1Hs doing a sum total close to equal to a 2H and the benefit of two runeforges which again don’t have as much impact on Blood and Unholy as they’d simply combo FC and SSG means that ultimately they’d be basically even in DPS. This isn’t the old days where offhands are penalized. Guess you been playing too much Classic.
No, the killer for DW in Blood and Unholy is needing two weapon drops. Those going for 1,000,000% MAX DEEPS aren’t going to go for that then. It’s the RPers that would stick to it. Or those rich enough to buy a pair of crafted 1Hs.
But then that is also neither here nor there as transmog doesn’t enhance DPS yet it’s an element of the game where the purpose of said element is Role Play and we’ve lost way too much of the dam RP of this mmoRPg. And it’s high time it got added back.
2 Likes
There was a whole thread about the overall DK community’s opinion about DnD, and the consensus was that it feels dated and clunky. The cool down for how often you need to have it placed to have effective rotation damage out put is a bit much and the fact that it isn’t a temporary or battle active aura that follows the DK like in the case of one of the Riders of the Apocalypse summons is just wasted potential and a significant QOL change that should exist for the class.
7 Likes
I know Pre-Patch classes and specs tend to feel “OP” but the TWW Pre-Patch period for Frost DK 2h Obliteration felt like juicy butter. My Hells it was so smooth, procs came at a good rate, the passive damage from some talents and the stat weight contributions were just 100% working really well.
Now things just kind of feel like using any frost skills for 2H Obliteration Frost is stop and go. Not sure how else to describe it, nothing about the interplay of abilities in your rotation transition smoothly. The GCD goes lightyears into being a reason for why it feels like a chug-a-thon of, skill - wait - skill - wait -skill wait, over and over.
One of the things I enjoy about other MMOs is the way some of their class skills are part of a skill combo system. Skill 1 turns into skill 2 in the same button press, or it’s skill 1 then skill 2 (no GCD) and the resource systems aren’t always convoluted (FF14 notwithstanding).
The class needs a lot of work and the whiplash of what seems to be the good spec or talent of choice each season needs to stop. I say this because gearing is an absolute abhorrent chore when you want to swap to continue to remain effective, or even the ability to TRY another specialization often requires a week or more of a new gearing journey. It’s tiresome.
I’ve been stuck as an Unholy main against my will basically for quite a few expansions at this point. I don’t like the idea of spam casting Death Coil in one spec as a Death knight to be competitive as a melee damage dealer. I wish to death we’d get rid of outbreak as a cast. Refreshing that thing feels so utterly stupid.
Make Death and Decay more impactful and less clunky. Baseline 2 charges, reduced CD if they wanna keep it as a place anywhere skill that’s required for Cleave \ AOE damage rotations. I wanna see it keep up diseases on any targets that stay in it while it’s up. Make Festering Strike or Scourge Strike reduce the remaining CD of DnD or something as a baseline maybe if we don’t wanna do 2 charges or have a baseline reduced CD.
With diseases, Outbreak out the damn door. Change that to a DK Harm Touch like a Paladins’ Judgement skill. Have diseases apply through Festering Strike and make them jump to nearby targets based on proximity to the target that got hit with festering strike. Outbreak is a out of the way clunky way to apply diseases mid rotation and the constant having to refresh it mid rotation.
For Frost, again this is opinion. Dump the stupid Dual Wielding mechanic. Gearing for it is dumb, thematically for the class it feels dumb. I don’t care that Thassarian and Darion do it, they’re both dumb. 2H weapons, combine the behavior of Howling Blast and Sindragosas’ Breath. What do I mean? Make it a visual effect similar to BOS, but as a cone blast of frost in front of the player that functions like Howling Blast give it a proc window to do bonus crit damage with Rime. Have it apply diseases and Hypothermia (stacking debilitate) reduces movement speed and attack speed.
Obliteration or Frost Strike should cast Glacial Advance as a baseline modifier of those skills. If I had to pick one it would be Frost Strike, you could reduce the baseline damage of Glacial Advance so it doesn’t feel weirdly too powerful I guess. That would be the major contributor to the Single Target damage and Cleave damage potential if it was baked into either one of those skills. You could damage amp its potential against targets affected by applied Frost Diseases.
DnD for Frost should be nuked, roll that functionality into Remorseless Winter, and at that roll Pillar of Frost into that skill as well. Frost should be an oppressive force on the battlefield. Being close to a Frost DK should be painful and dangerous and not because the spec sucks. Targets affected by Diseases that are in the range of Remorseless Winter should have their movement speed and attack speed slowed in a cleave scenario. From a ST perspective it’s a constant source of just pulse damage and damage amp for the DK that keeps it up. Maybe have its duration modified by Frost strike or something, not sure. This would have to be where that theme of a terrifying juggernaut of death and ice comes from. Cloaked in deathly winter, will hit you like a damn truck.
This next one is just class flavor. I feel like as a baseline DKs should have Army of the Dead or something akin to Apocalypse in their kit. Summoning one undead ghoul just seems like a half baked gimmick to throw in for Frost and Blood personally. Blood as the DPS spec back in the day was so goated. I remember casting DRW then AOD at the beginning of pulls to get double AOD, that went so hard.
The class needs something more than what it’s been getting and this isn’t just about simple performance as DPS. Just because people learn to play a class with a convoluted skill set with poorly optimized systems, doesn’t mean it’s good.
4 Likes
No I know what im talking about, quit being salty and trying to push a lie.
So its a DW spec, glad we can clear that up finally after about 6 years of people claiming 2h was and is always better.
So? They dont have the ToT passive which is exclusive to Frost so if either of these specs went to DW they would lose 25% of their strike damage.
“Shows what you know” Blood and Unholy do not hit with both weapons, so you lose out on the offhand damage and instantly lose 25% of your strike damage when you use it. They wouldnt even be close to even in DPS.
What are you talking about? 1 DW is penalized through having misses still with auto attacks, and for Frost it doesnt do the same damage as the main hand. The main hand is around 75% of the overall damage and the offhand is 25% for Frost, Blood and Unholy do not have the passive to allow this to happen, so you would just be doing 75% of your normal damage with a 2h.
No its not having the ToT passive.
Those going for max DPS wouldnt even consider DW even if they happened to get 2 1h weapons.
No they wouldnt.
They wouldnt either. Blood and Unholy DW sucked outside of a bug in Cata that allowed Sudden Doom to proc off the offhand and was later fixed due to being 100% unintended.
Your request isnt a transmog request, again transmog has nothing to do with what you requested. The fact that you think it does “shows what you know” which is nothing. If you want a transmog option for 2h to be transmogged into 2 1h weapons then say it, and then advocate for 2 1h weapons to be transmogged into a 2h weapon and just axe 2h from Frost entirely because it has had serious detrimental affects on the spec overall.
Oh, and there would be an auto attack disparity with Unholy and Sudden Doom proccing more. That happened once before in cata, so if DW were to be added to Unholy in a serious manner and they put in as much effort as they had with 2h frost, 2h unholy would be dead.
So no, giving Blood and Unholy the ability to equip 2 1h weapons would be DoA, just like 2h Frost was when they just allowed the option to use it.
Honestly I was thinking about if it would be nice to bake the effect of DnD with RW for frost. RW has a longer area of effect and while its active your Oblit (instead of cleaving more targets) deals a frost damage AoE every time it hits the enemy.
Blood gets DnD, unholy gets Defile, frost has RW. Play into making them feel unique to the specs. And ofc make all of them follow the character around like Mograine’s DnD
7 Likes
Frost could have gotten Death’s Due that converts Death and Decay to deal Shadowfrost damage and giving strength each tick rather than cleaving strikes but Nooooo.
6 Likes
I agree, I def love that way for each spec have their own DnD
2 Likes
Unholy does, and DW was the top build until they removed DW from all but frost in cata b/c they wanted to nerf sudden doom and unholy into the ground.
That was a totally different build tree though, I doubt you could replicate now.
If they could work the cleave of DnD into Remorseless Winter and give us an extra charge, I would finally have a good reason to have it on my actionbar.
At the moment, it’s so weak and requires investing too many talent points just to make it worth the GDC, much less the rune.
Sudden Doom still exists so it would. Auto attack damage was a large portion of your damage back then as well. That build wasnt just machine gunning Death Coils but keeping up DT for a much higher amount which provided a lot of damage through your ghoul.
More Sudden Doom = more Death Coils = more Shadow Infusion stacks for higher DT uptime.
Unholy doesnt have the ToT passive and neither does blood so losing out on 25% of your strike damage would be bad. But go ahead, open up the options and let people complain that the option is bad. They did it for 2h Frost so why not everything else? Allow arms the option to DW as well like it had.
Na, I just checked Sudden doom is tied to main hand only. So for numerous reasons the build would be dookie.