I really want to like Frost DK—but let’s be real, compared to Ret Paladin it feels very clunky. They shouldn’t be exactly mechanically the same class to avoid homogenization obviously. But it isn’t that much of a stretch to say DK and Paladin are sister classes in some ways.
Some of my biggest annoyances playing Frost DK are:
- On the surface, Frost DK seems like the bursty upfront damage spec compared to Unholy. But the more you play it, the more you realize there are many passive micro buffs which you can line up to maximize damage, leading to degenerate gameplay. Unleashed Frenzy, Icy Talons, Bonegrinder, etc.
- Everything revolves around Pillar of Frost way too much. I feel like I do tank damage with people around a similar iLvL to me unless I’m in PoF windows. Feels like a maintenance buff more than a cooldown. “Press this or do tank damage” does not feel cool or fun.
- Breath of Sindragosa is another terrible maintenance gameplay style. I will never play this talent no matter how good it is.
- Death and Decay sucks to use. The fact that it costs 1 Rune, and also Remorseless Winter costs 1 Rune makes is very clunky and annoying. You’re down 2 Runes that you could have spent on Obliterate immediately, and you still have to cast Pillar of Frost on top of that. So, you’re stuck in 2 GCDs before you can pump in AoE— and also have to pray Pillar of Frost is off cooldown and everything perfectly aligns. Ret Paladin get Consecration passively when they use Blade of Justice which streamlines that ability and their passive AoE damage tremendously.
- This last complaint is mostly aimed at PvP, but still probably applies in PvE as well. Armor types should matter again and not feel cosmetic. A plate class should not feel like it has the same physical damage mitigation as a Monk in leather, or even a Priest in cloth. Make armor types matter again. This would help survivability of course obviously but also help the RPG aspect. Armor shouldn’t just feel like stat sticks.
Just a handful of things that stick out for me playing Frost DK. If others have complaints or corrections, feel free to add what you want.
12 Likes
Same goes for killing machine, why does it still proc off auto attack crits instead of just auto attacks. I wish it was as how it used to be in mop and wod, if you play DW you get benefit to frost strike and if you play 2h you benefit obliterate.
5 Likes
Ret does play like a dream. Fantastic animations and sound effects to boot.
1 Like
If ret plays like a dream i would still play it.
No reason a knight with a big 2-hander can do his full rotation at range and still do 85% of his damage profile.
Frost DK’s is not as bad as ppl say. It has multiple play styles, find one that suits you.
Ret is considered to be one of the most well designed specs in the game. It’s a pretty popular opinion.
6 Likes
im sry id rather play another class than ret atm (atleast in pvp) its painful
Lack of gap closer.
No burst.
Lack of resource management.
Lost theme.
About everything they do can be dispelled.
Lack of st damage.
Lack of good choices on talents.
I know it’s popular, but it’s not popular due to design, more so it’s the ease of play on rets with little to no skill ceiling.
In pvp it’s unplayable after a certain bracket.
2 Likes
It kinda sounds like you just dont like ret to be honest.
3 Likes
I played paladin since vanilla, my first toon actually. It used to be allot better then it is now. This DK is the 2nd toon I took seriously in wrath.
Ret can be better, the resource system it has needs to have more weight, atm you get so much hp you practically spam our finisher, they can stand to slow down hp generation and make the finishers hit harder to return some burst ret used to have. You have the option to drop several skills to be automatic, including wings, making things too easy. Both hero specs currently activate the same way and basically the same as each other with the sole exception of one having a 5 hp finisher.
freedom used to be undispellable, but is currently not, and in pvp it is an important skill for rets.
in pvp ret’s is heavily pvp modified, specially on their defensives/self healing. There shouldn’t be a world where a warrior can out self heal a paladin…
Clearly you have issues with ret. All i said was that its popular and is generally regarded as a well designed spec. You should post these issues in the paladin forums if you feel that strongly about it.
2 Likes
Warrior should be the least self-heally of the tanks/plate specs because they aren’t a magic reliant class. DK and Pally should be highly self reliant but Warriors should be more of a bloodspiller, dealing more damage the more blood is spilled AKA hit harder the more HP is lost.
1 Like
I agree about the finishers, even worse now with the tier set giving us 4 secs of no HP loss. Templars Verdict hits like a pool noodle even though they keep buffing it.
Pretty much all of Rets damage is from hammers, divine storm and fire DoT.
All of DK is clunky, runes are clunky, death and decay is clunky. It’s like a reverse paladin with needing to balance both runes AND runic power, meanwhile paladins just have infinite buttons forever. DK’s design is OLD and it is showing.
11 Likes
DK in general has felt clunky since the introduction to GCDs across the board in BFA. A lot of that has been reverted for most classes but DKs still suffer from it quite a bit…
Unholy assault? GCD.
Raise Abom? GCD.
Apoc? GCD.
Abom Limb? Believe it or not? GCD.
7 Likes
Honestly this is my only real issue with frost DK. I hate having to use death and decay.
I mean, I also hate Breath of Sindragosa but I can just go oblit and not use that terrible talent.
2 Likes
I’m gonna be in the minority with this opinion but I kind of love death and decay. It’s thematically very cool as the opposition to paladins consecration. Slapping it down as part of your rotation becomes second nature after a while.
Tieing cleave to it is kinda junk and blizzard knows it. Having the cleaving strikes buff last even after you leave the area obviously makes no sense and is clearly a half baked band aid.
I think I’d like to see them drop or change cleaving strikes and buff the damage / significance of death and decay itself. Deathknight has so much cleave damage that I don’t think it would be a big deal to remove cleaving strikes altogether and move the damage to other areas.
Also I’m once again going to ask daddy blizzard to give us a glyph of Deaths Due so I can make it blue and sparkly again. Pls.
I mainly hate it for frost. When playing Blood or Unholy its not bad, it just feels awful on frost imo. Also, paladins dont have to spend any resources to put down Consecration so its not nearly as annoying.
You know, I really wouldn’t mind Death’s Due… if they didn’t nerf the crap out of it by tying its Strength Buff behind Cleaving Strikes rather than every tick of damage it deals.
Seriously, ever since the Obliteration Cleave from it, it pretty much rubbed everyone a really wrong way.
1 Like
Yeah. Hopefully if we ever get a rework in the future they will dump it. It appears to be a universally hated talent, hopefully they get the memo and come up with something better.
For frost they could probably drop it from the rotation altogether and roll the effects into remorseless winter. Maybe leave death and decay as a pure utility ability.
i hope they bring back hungering cold to replace dnd and retool it to work similar to dnd
that way its damage scales better for frost
every mob inside it gets slower or takes extra damage while we get faster also has some synergy with RW