I don’t care if DW is viable or not.
I just want 2H to be equally viable.
If you enjoy DW, great, enjoy, I hope they don’t make it weaker than 2H either.
Bold of you to assume I wanted DW to be eliminated.
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So you don’t want it to be eliminated… you just don’t care if it’s rendered entirely invalid.
So, you’re just going to mince words and not listen. Got it.
Moving on, I don’t have time for your clown show antics.
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How is it mincing words? It’s what you said. I didn’t alter the quotes in any way, shape or form.
I wasn’t even referring to you to begin with, I was referring to the actual clown car of this specific subforum that runs around screaming for DW to be eliminated or rendered invalid.
I wouldn’t mind it as much if the capstones were better. Imo, making a capstone that revolves around auto attacks is bad and doesn’t offer anything fun or new. Just passive damage…
For PvE that’s only in M+. Without the legendary - and even with - it’s not really dominating Breath in raids, which is pretty sad.
Was literally not being taken away in TWW and there was 0 chance DW was either.
Because it’s a DW designed spec. If they threw 2h Enhance back in and couldn’t use Lava Lash, would you make similar feedback? What if they supported DW Survival and didn’t let Lunge trigger WFB cdr?
It has more-or-less been since at least 10.0.7.
Right, but the idea behind them that they’re exploring is essentially keeping big Obliterates and, instead of just gutting KM & Pillar, pushing the damage into passive capstones to pump up the non-Pillar window damage without having to make direct adjustments to KM Obliterate.
I dont see that at all. If anything, it pushes you more towards 2H. Take Might of the Frozen Wastes passive for instance.
That’s the thing though, km is such a bad design. If forces janky scaling with crit and makes obliterate feel bad when km isn’t up. I would much rather have km be redesigned so the rest of the kit can function better.
I completely understand where you’re coming from.
However, wanting KM to be nerfed in anyway is firmly in the minority camp for this spec, and there’s nowhere else to take damage from - other than Pillar. So, unfortunately, regardless of how good or poorly designed KM currently is, having talents that are just passive damage that can be tuned independent of the core abilities is sort of the best solution for the spec.
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Yeah, you right. I just went and looked at logs and I was surprised to find a few breath builds in there. But lets be honest, it takes far more effort than the average player is willing to put in to be able to pull that off.
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I suppose you have a point. I wish there would at the very least have some type of crit change. Maybe a portion of crit chance give X amount of frost damage or something so it doesn’t feel as bad to scale. But this is only the first pass. I’m assuming more changes will be coming.
To add though, I wish horn of winter for rider wasn’t a must pick. You can easily build without it, and then have part of a hero talent wasted.
Unholy has the same issue with the two point node talents for improved festering strike for example, really wish improved FS was 1 talent instead of 2. But now I am just being nit picky.
And I think they are trying to put more value into Crit for the spec so it doesnt feel like such a wasted stat which is why those new talents only trigger off of auto attack crits.
And looking at this some more, DW with Rune of Razorice could make a comeback and be kinda strong with the new Shattering Blade and Shattered Frost.
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I get that for sure. But do still think KM procs should have some type of change for crit in general, especially since the new row technically can be played without.
My idea in general would to make obliterate do half frost/physical like Scourge strike, and KM make it do full frost damage, without the auto crit. I think it would let blizz actually tune the spec easier if so.
I really love the UH Sudden doom proc to have the auto crit, not based on your own crit chance. Wish Frost was similar.
But looking at how is designed, the extra crit for auto attacks is nice, but also has the awkward scaling with KM. The new Frosty Scythe always crits, so crit with that is devalued, but also not at the same time since the cd is reduced when km procs.
It just seems like the design contradicts itself even more now than before.
I’m on the opposite side of this! All specs should be able to DW/2h as we please!
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But… they didn’t say anything about not being able to DW or 2h? Not really sure what the “opposite side” of that would be, I guess just being unarmed? 
You’re not really on the opposite side.
Having “all specs” be viable with either 2H or DW is probably not actually viable.
I’m guessing they have to make some abilities one or the other to make either of them work. All I was saying is just that I want them to both be viable and not completely limp. Unholy is in a better place right now. I’m hoping the above changes help move Frost up the DPS ladder when they drop.
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Looks thrown together and pretty awful if you ask me. They they are just giving the forums what they want yet again and just hoping for the best.
Shattered Frost as a new capstone for Frost Strike that just plays off of Shattering Blade?
More damage put into where there is already the most damage… KM procs.
Smothering Offense? Why? How about doing something about DW misses, why do 1h autos even miss in the first place?
Bringing back Frozen Pulse under a different name and instead of being off of autos and the amount of runes available, its off of auto crits.
Pillar extended off of auto crits… ok? just extend the duration at that point because its going to get extended by 5 seconds all the time.
Frostscythe probably still wont be taken unless it just does a truckload of damage because Obliterate.
I know this is the design phase, but wow this isnt boosting confidence going forward without some major tuning.
I dont see how there cant be nerfs unless scaling in TWW is as big of a jump as it was from SL to DF and there is some room for damage to be put in, but that just tells me the spec isnt designed well.
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Unless the redesign how KM works, obliterate and more, frost will sadly suffer.
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As a player that solos content like current heroic/mythic dungeons I can’t agree with the Frostscythe changes. This is currently an integral/much loved part of Frost DK soloing because it provides the player with a more efficient rotation vs the standard/cost intensive obliterate rotation. This rotation allows the player to store runes/runic power for later events when they would want an abundance of resources to survive damage intake spikes.
Not saying it’s a perfect spell in regard to the wider player base but its application is sorely misunderstood. Please reconsider or offer this as a choice node with the newly reworked Frostscythe that has a cooldown and cost 2 runes.
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Forums? You mean the vast majority of the DK community? And the primary location for feedback to be made? uh…yeah
Whats the problem? It sounds fantastic for both breath and oblit builds. AoE damage outside of Breath windows and DnD is exactly what has been needed.
I dont see where they are adding more damage to KM, if anything, they are giving KM some more pizazz so it feels better to press, something everyone has been complaining about. Also, every class has their own “KM” playstyle. its our main damage button. At least now there is going to be more to it then just BIG NUMBER.
This is a great change. A hard hitting ability on a short cooldown. Only thing we had prior to this was Abomb Limb and lets face it, it has trash damage and doesnt even proc Rime anymore. At least now Frostscythe might see some actual gameplay from players instead of never being taken outside of maybe leveling.
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