It is definitely just a band-aid. My hope is they plan something like the paladin treatment. where they really update not only our talents but visuals as well
2 Likes
Except im not. There is nothing in the frost toolkit that is broken and frost is not the only option for the DK in terms of damage. Just because people dont like a talent doesnt mean that it has to be reworked.
Idk, donât have Shadowlands yet (was trying to farm and get familiar with the game once again after leaving by the final days of Legion)
Iâve always been mostly a Frost DK player, always hated Unholyâs mechanics, and was forced to play Blood A WHOLE EFFING LOT during Legion due to numerous reasons (which was one of the reasons why Iâve got put off and simply left the game)
Now, just got back, and bare with me, I have tried Frost roughly 3 weeks ago when I started again, and it sucked, played BFA and geared up up to iLvl 87 by playing mostly (almost exclusively) unholy DK, and now switched today back to Frost. Iâm dying to all solo-able elites on world map that either have too much HP (over 150k) or have any kind of spamming CC, while if I do Unholy I simply obliterate the CC ones without any effort, and still cannot handle anything with around 200k hp solo. Iâm hating the experience and I am quite divided if I want to play Shadowlands at all, maybe Iâm better off of WoW permanently since BFA is so bad (just seeing it now), and seemingly Shadowlands destroyed my favorite spec.
I just hope they fix this somehow. To me Frost feels like paper spec without any dmg to justify it what-so-ever.
1 Like
Iâd have to disagree there.
In pvp Frost is so heavily reliant on chill streak that it is the only thing keeping them on the ladder. In pve the spec even with how its talents are made is designed specifically to benefit BoS.
THAT right there IS a mechanical problem. Every other class in the game isnât even designed in a way where their value in pvp comes from just 1 talent and in pve where theyâre only designed around one base talent.
Thatâs certainly on a level where it can certainly be considered a design failure for frost (especially with horn of winter and icy talons being talents. Who asked for that?!).
Iâd even say that the whole class in general is heavily flawed despite what people thing of Unholy in pve, frost in pvp or blood in general. Thereâs design flaws that is not going to hold up enough to last until next expansion.
6 Likes
Chill streak should be a PvE ability
4 Likes
So what? Its designed a certain way, it doesnt mean there is a problem or its broken and in need of a redesign mid expansion. Its not a mechanical issue or problem, its certain players not liking it. So again⊠so what?
Frost is performing with other talents like Obliteration than BoS. PvP is just showing the real problem, its not Chill Streak, its KM rank 2 but people want to point to Chill Streak because its âmandatoryâ as the problem.
Just because you pay 15 dollars a month doesnt mean you are entitled to the spec you want and how it is designed. Your design might be different from my design and we both pay so who should Blizzard listen to? You are paying to play on their servers, not to have the class/spec exactly how you want it to be.
Will this buff do anything? Of course. None of you know what is going to happen when frost gets more stats. Other âunderperformersâ that are getting a buff people have seen a rise in rank due to getting better gear for the spec.
you are the definition of a slave costumer, dream come true to any corporation, you are actually justifying and crusading against any criticism or costumer concerns regarding their PERSONAL reasons for playing the game, which include specific specs and it is, sorry for ruining your bubble, a perfectly valid reason for demanding change from a costumer point of view. Sure, theyâll, in the end, do what they want, just as Iâll put my money where I want.
Mind you that I do not trust blizzard, havenât trusted them for many many years, so I am used to being beaten by their ridiculous choices and lack of quality in all their games, meaning I always expect the worse, so whenever I come back to play something from them, I already know that Iâll dislike a lot of stuff, but as long as I can latch onto something that isnât ruined, Iâm fine, this time around there isnât much tbh, except maybe for the possibility of wonder by playing the Expansion in time, which I am not leaning towards doing at allâŠ
I abhore many classes and specs in WoW for I find them way too boring to play, DK was the only one that wasnât boring for me (up until DH came out in Legion, and which is also disgusting to play in the current patch), but then they decide itâs a good idea to basically destroy the class in the meta, Iâm not fine with that at all, and if I cannot solo old content without the expansion, thereâs nothing for me to do without buying it, considering the amount of issues with Shadowlands being raised, I find that buying it would be a big mistake because if I donât like it I wouldnât play more than 10 hours before getting completely disgusted by it or literally sleeping on the keyboard (happened many times with blizzard games)
10 Likes
I donât think itâs very productive to name call, first off. Just because Kelliste doesnât feel the same way that others do about the state of the class, doesnât earn the title âslave consumerâ. As in all things, thereâll be people that arenât happy with the way things are, and thereâll be people that are.
That being said, this is a lot speculation for someone who hasnât even stepped into Shadowlands yet. Iâm not saying youâre not entitled to your views and opinions, but itâs hard to form them off of second-hand sources, ESPECIALLY the forums. Thereâs a negative tinge to nearly everything here.
But to start name-calling because someone doesnât feel like the core of the class is doom and gloom? I mean, not really necessary at all.
2 Likes
Crusading against the criticism is not the same thing as having a different view, saying âyou shouldnât complain and they shouldnât change anythingâ is different from âI do not agree, for me itâs okay as isâ
2 Likes
I mean, 3/4 paragraphs in that post are contributions to how/why the spec is or isnât performing. Again, Iâm not saying youâre wrong Zizuph, but youâre contributing a lot less to this conversation than anyone else in this thread, if not only because you havenât touched Shadowlands.
2 Likes
A slave consumer? What an uninformed person you are. First off, I have been outspoken for about a good part of a year about putting the spec first when giving feedback going into the alpha and beta tests and people sat on their hands. If there was any issue with suggestions that were made by the playerbase like say KM rank 2 for instance which is causing a lot of the issues that people have now, I was just called an anti-2h troll and written off by people. Now look at people.
So I have been critical when the time is appropriate. Its not like the alpha and beta tests were that long ago, and people sat on their hands and came back admittedly because 2h was back. Thats their reason.
I dont like KM rank 2, I dont like the covenant system, I dont like The Maw which is quite boring and empty with nothing to really do there aside from rep grinding for gem slots on gear. Torghast had its problems early on with anima powers completely favoring Unholy until they changed a few to include rune spenders from Blood and Frost, and runic power spenders as well. Its a time sink with very little reward.
If you dont like it, dont buy it. There arent going to be any mechanical changes made to Frost because the changes that were made to it in the beta were all player made suggestions that a good amount of people thought was a good idea.
But no, you are not entitled to enjoy the spec you want to play. Who should Blizzard listen to in that case? Are there issues, of course but Frost or DK is not alone in that scenario. When you try to make everyone happy you end up making no one happy. If you dont want to put feedback during the development phase when Blizzard asked for it, you have absolutely no one to blame but yourself for not interacting during that time. Even if you dont have access to testing, you can provide input.
Frost has the majority of its damage locked away behind procs. Rime holds back 300% increased HB damage, KM holds back a ton of Obliterate damage as well, Frostscythe requires crits to do 4x its normal damage, Remorseless Winter is balanced with Gathering Storm and Everfrost, BoS relies on uptime.
I have even said that they should either get rid of KM rank 2, or bring in a different main rune spender while Obliterate is there for KM procs since you cannot balance the low end and high end of Obliterate separately with an âObliterate onlyâ tuning pass.
The 5% will bring up in rank slightly. But people are not taking into account what future gear might do. Having a higher crit%, higher mastery, possibly some haste to go along with it with the secondary stat soft caps that are in place now.
By all means, its a functional spec with nothing broken about it. Just a few people dont like that their view of Frost isnt the way that the spec is right now.
3 Likes
I hope 9.1 will shake up the foundation of Dks in Shadowlands PvP. Right now, theyâre just numerically tuning underperforming and overperforming specs (Still salty about Sub Nerfs) with nothing too big of a change unless something is just not right at all (Such as Sub Rogues using ER to one shot someone, yes⊠This LITERALLY happened)
Paladins are likely going to be the biggest losers in 9.1 in terms of buffs/nerfs along with maybe Fire Mages, Boomkins, WW and Non-Enhancement Shamans.
Hopefully we get changes that doesnât only revolve around Chill Streak, the ability is fine⊠Itâs just, it shouldnât be our main source of damage in PvP. BoS vs Obliteration is a whole different story that is also going to take place in later patches too⊠Like Icecap buff in BfA, I actually enjoyed that playstyle a lot. 
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BoS should just work like bonestorm in my opinion and probably be baseline. If they keep it as it is, it means that they have to make Obliterate and every other frost ability do 0 baseline damage.
2 Likes
Obliterates low damage is due to KM rank 2, not BoS. Obliterates base damage was higher in BFA than it is right now and the only change realistically was KM rank 2 going into SL and Blizzard balancing around that change.
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And why do you think blizzard made KM rank 2?
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As a frost fan Iâm excited 
Is it youâre favorite thing in the world to disagree with everyone you must be a troll every single one of your post are disagreeing with everyone idk to think of it as sad or funny
3 Likes
Kelliste has a habit of digging herself a hole from disagreeing with people.
Even though she has yet to realize it.
Iâll give it from 3 months⊠to whenever WotLK Classic comes out.
2 Likes
Iâm fine with the base damage hitting low if the burst during PoF was worth the trade-off. Itâs not. The fact we have to weave weak FSâs and HBâs in order to proc the KM oblit means our burst is slower, and easily healed through.
Generally this isnât an issue if the rest of the meta is equally slow. However, thatâs not the case. The meta is quite fast and all melee classes have a more on demand harder hitting burst. This is where people calling for buffs want to see it.
buffing base damage oblits wonât do anything to help our burst in a bursty meta.
An easy fix would be to decrease the CD on PoF so we can at least keep the pressure. While this wonât impact the burst window directly, itâll allow us to have more up-time which would make up for it.
1 Like
Because people wanted Obliterate to scale with Mastery.