Looks like Frost and Fire are overtaking Arcane in M+ logs.
Is this because people don’t like playing arcane, or something else?
It seems like all the sites that track log numbers are showing this right now, like U and mythicstats
I imagine it’s because many players don’t care for the mana management aspect of Arcane when they’re having to deal with Mythic+ mechanics. I know I’ll be doing content from now on as Frostfire Frost spec because it’s enjoyable and doesn’t have to juggle mana.
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More than that, Fire went from almost last to first place in a matter of 1 week in Mythic raid logs. They only reason Fire would be first in Mythic raiding is if Fire is actually better. Didn’t fire just get some massive buffs this last week?
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Where are you pulling this data from? You can check rio and wcl. WCL shows frost remaining in the same bottom position whether you sort by 1 day 1 week or 2 weeks. Rio has frost remaining at 2.3-3.4% of keys regardless of the level.
Can people stop putting out bunk info for petes sake.
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there is no mana management in M+ bro. We barrage too much. Arcane just isn’t that great in overall dps.
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Mana management isn’t a thing anymore really. Especially in M+ where it gets to regen between packs, as well as Barrage CD regen.
Massive? No. Decent, yes. Buffing Phoenix alongside most Fire mages getting 4set that buffs it as well was likely a big factor. But I think it might have more to do with Fire’s general double dip into Haste. As more mages get better gear they’re also getting some love; too bad it’s pretty much SF only, FF needs the help and feels way better to pay.
As mentioned in the previous post, mythicstats has great data on this.
Mythicstats (.com) aggregates the top 2000 logs of every spec and right now Arcane is significantly behind frost and fire in M+
U (.gg) does something very similar.
Both sites compare the actual numbers. Looking at warcraftlogs directly is tough because they don’t really give you the actual numbers unless you look at a log individually for m+, they instead give a weighted score which is more useful for comparing logs within the same spec, than comparing specs to each other.
You got it. A lot, and I mean a lot of people absolutely loathe arcane (understandably so), so the moment fire and frost is either marginally behind or ahead they dip.
A lot of streamers and hardcore folks wasn’t playing arcane because they love it. It was more a necessity until frost and fire catches up in some way.
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Agreed, a lot of people really enjoy Fire, and as usual it does increasingly well the longer things stay alive. In lower keys, ignite build isn’t as useful, and Flamestrike is clunky and unfun to play around…so it makes sense that as people get better gear and are able to do higher keys, there will be a jump back to Fire.
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It’s just the natural progression. Arcane is good when things die fast like in the beginning of an expansion, Fire is good when things take a longer time to kill and the pulls are bigger, Frost is just the easiest and most comfortable spec for most players and it’s AoE is better than Arcane which is why it’s seeing more play in M+. Numerically speaking, nothing has changed and Arcane still performs the best when played optimally but that takes a lot of skill and most people either don’t have it or don’t want to get sweaty.
Mythicstats ALSO has arcane still making frost its bottom like bro bffr
That actually just changed a few hours ago, at the time of my post both fire and frost were above arcane.
Not sure it’s such a dominant position – Arcane is moved down to the bottom of the “B” tier on mythicstats, and frost still has the best log – 1.4M overall vs arcane’s 1.3m overall.
So the best parse this week by an arcane mage lost out to the best parse this week by a frost mage. And fire makes them both look like a bad choice, particularly with fire having cauterize.
I agree with people here that the streamers don’t like playing arcane. I think a major difference is how there are a lot of hard-casts with arcane, so it’s harder to kick and do stops mid-burst. The other bit is that since arcane is so thoroughly target capped, these big keys won’t be the best (and fire can still do great prio – perhaps the best damage profile in the game right now)
I was hoping for a season where arcane was the best mage … ah well, kinda sad about that. but I enjoy it, I’ll keep playing it
Arcane leads frost in average and is still a tier over it like the spec, and has a couple thousand extra parses over it which drive its average down. Frost, especially in aoe, is streaky as all and getting a parse thats a hundred thousand over arcane and acting like it means frost is moving is a really stupid take.
The spec is also still insane in raids and is only trailing fire by a hair.
Again bffr here. You wanna make a point with data use the data. Fire is putting up numbers but to act like arcane is not still an amazingly good spec is insane especially considering every other site still has it giving it hard to most every other class much less just being good among mage specs.
Here you make a huge deal about arcane making frost it’s “bottom”
And then here you are talking about using the data, when your original statement was hyperbolic considering the average between the two is so close, as you also say. They are in fact about 30k apart from each other.
So you saying that arcane makes frost its “bottom” is you yourself doing what you accuse me of doing here lol
The point here is that Arcane is not the clear meta anymore
That is all I am saying, and I think that is quite reasonable to say.
However you are making a lot of wild statements, if you want to win a debate on merit I suggest you don’t insult people.
Arcane doesn’t really do well with high target counts. So as people pull bigger they’re better served by frost and fire.
Frost and Fire also have better defensives.
Also arcane is kind of a bear to play and get good value out of, but then again so is fire.
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Yeah I think you’re right. I guess Arcane would need to have a lot more damage than the other two specs to beat out the target cap issue and cauterize/cold snap
Its hyperbole but I can see how it can be interpreted as hurtful and even, now that its been pointed out, offensive to queer folks. My b wasn’t my intent.
Also I wasn’t debating you I was calling you wrong and a little bit calling you a liar or, more specifically, you using data to misrepresent a point for your own interests.
Thanks for your reply, it’s appreciated.
re mage meta I think Strakith summed it up best. I’m not saying arcane is bad, but at this point a lot of specs will likely be brought over it.
Also, if you head over to raider io and look at the top runs in the world, people are bringing frost to the 13’s and 14’s a lot. There are definitely some fire and arcane there too – but arcane is definitely not dominant. It’s actually kind of amazing to have all 3 specs of a class so well represented
I play all three specs depending on the dungeon but frost is my favorite because the rotation so easy i can do it in my sleep which gives me more attention for doing the mechanics
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Arcane just isn’t very consistent with AoE. It can do well with cooldowns and when the RNG gods favor it, but other times it’s a struggle when you’re sitting there with no procs.
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