I recently came back after a good ten year or so break off WoW, and I want to make sure I’m not crazy here…
I recently got a 606 2H in the delves, and tried replacing a 593 and 603 Weapon for each hand. It FELT slower, and like it did less damage- but I can’t notice a huge difference against training dummies. Can someone provide some insight?
Simming wise DW is the play but it’ll depend on what content you are playing, early indications on guides say you can use either or in pvp happily. In PvE I think dw deathbringer is the best numbers. If I was a betting man I’d say 2h will really shine again with better stats in the later seasons. Ultimately though play what you prefer.
Generally, assuming equal item level, DW will outperform 2h. However, with a large enough item level gap, 2h can surpass DW. The best advice I could give you is to sim the 2 and see. Also, make sure to change the talents around as the optimal DW talents are not the same as the optimal 2h talents.
Awesome- I didn’t even think of the talents. Thanks for that.
The thing that is frustrating me is that ALL of the quest rewards from the campaign I’ve encountered so far are 2H even while frost. This is making me a bit crazy, because I would certainly prefer to dual wield.
Welcome to the issue people pointed out back when 2h was added back. The loot table was going to flood personal loot with a bunch of 2h weapons and if DW was better there are only so many 1h strength weapons in the table and there is no way to force them.
If you are trying to catch up through some of these avenues that have personal loot like the Superbloom for example, I would get 5 2h weapons for every 1h one.
There are at least 2 quests during the war campaign that give 1hs. I don’t think the second is until the end but one of the first gives the choice of a 2h or 1h.
I’m a big time 2h enjoyer but dw is just straight up better currently.
I got a 2hander that would have been a pretty big ilvl upgrade but it still simmed almost 35k dps lower than playing dual wield.
DW currently. 2h has better late-expansion scaling though.
2h does not have better late expansion scaling especially now. Unless they make yet another 2h legendary 2h is probably going to be back burner the entire time. That’s what happens when you put all of your eggs in one basket.
That’s pretty good though since it’ll reduce the upgrading cost of your 1hs, unless you make double crafted.
Sorry, I don’t take class advice from a person without a single AoTC, let alone CE.
2h already bursts harder during full buff lineup windows, the issue is rotational reliability. Crit and haste solve that problem, and as softcaps start to be reached, and instead of thirsting for more KM procs, we have too many, 2h’s bonus dam ends up coming out on top. Gear solves the reliability problem that 2h has outside of Obliteration windows, and 2h already bursts harder than DW in current gear.
And you have been wrong about everything from class stuff to forum ignores. Absolutely no one should listen to your nonsense. Going around talking about me derailing threads with your dumb little hate campaign.
You also know so little about how the SPEC works that you think what applies to 2h doesnt apply to DW. Obliterate without KM’s is bad all around and with more crit comes more IDT for DW along with more KM procs for outside Obliteration windows, and then you have Frost Strike which 2h cant really go Shattering because it cant stack up RI stacks fast enough to make any reliable use from it. Frost Strike is doing a lot of damage if it fully crits. 1.25m damage to be exact and its main hand is going +800k.
This junky “2h is going to be better because it bursts harder right now” nonsense is going to end up like WoD.
Thats you right? Jumping the gun saying Frost was going to be bad and where is it now? Its 7th in terms of damage output. Funny, your posts dont age well at all yet you try to talk like you know what you are talking about and you dont. This isnt DF anymore so you are actually the one looking to other expansions and pulling nonsense from where the sun dont shine.
Again, there are more sources of damage now than just Obliterate and more crit and haste is going to help DW just as much if not more than it will help 2h. That means quicker RI stacks and more crit for Frost Strike, more auto attacks and auto crits for more IDT and KM procs, all that is in favor of DW but you are so hateful and bigoted that you cant see the truth right in front of you.
Go away troll.
I’m not so sure of that. During preseason, with the inflated end of season stats, DW was already equal if not ahead of 2h with Legendary in practice. Even if the nerfs were applied retroactively, it’s not going to create the spread we see with 2h vs DW now.
Unless there’s another 2h cantrip at Fyrakk level without a 1h Strength cantrip and there’s an ilvl boost for the 2h specifically, I don’t think 2h will be pulling ahead at all. Maybe it could equalize the spread a bit but there’s nothing to indicate that getting more stats will result in 2h pulling ahead when preseason already showed that DW is basically equal against a legendary + higher ilvl weapon.
Only thing missing from your hypothesis is the inclusion of hero talents. I don’t know the answer but if hero talents favor obliterate damage then 2h could pull in front.
The difference between dw and 2h is negligible, even currently, and shouldn’t be stirring such drama for people. I run 2h riders and have out damaged many people playing the “meta” dw DB build even when they have 10ilvls on me.
Just play what you like, the 3% dps boost isn’t going to make you a better player.
DW has always been my favorite, and i prefer the speed of the rotation as well as the cosmetic appearance of having two weapons instead of one big stick that makes you look like just another caveman class. I am SO SO SO glad however that the DW play style this expansion is NOT breath spec and I hope it stays that way… i effing hate breath playstyle lol
The inclusion of hero talents isn’t missing though; they’re functionally generally self contained.
Yes, there’s an “Obliterate does X% more damage” talent in rider, but it has an accompanying one for Frost Strike. The overall damage boost averages out to functionally be the same: if, for example, 2h does 30% Obliterate / 10% FS damage and DW does 20% / 20%, a 10% increase to Obliterate & FS damage will average out.
There could be an argument made that extended 3 target cleave could hypothetically benefit 2h Rider more compared to DW Rider, but that’s something that would still very quickly average out (or fall behind) after the immediate burst window.
Rider heavily favors 2h, between Oblit buffs, DnD buffs+uptime, and lacking synergy with the kit that DW wants to bring to the table. 2h has flex talents in the spec that DW flat out doesn’t have, and those talents can be placed into nodes that heavily synergize with Rider.
2h Rider is a sleeper build waiting in the wings for stat values and tier set bonuses to favor it. My raid’s fDKs are already hitting some degree of crit DR in the 605~ ilvl range, and we’ve been talking about it a bit, and predicting that 2h is going to pull ahead by the end of season 2. Feel free to look up our logs to see what kinda players are having these types of conversations.
I’m not seeing the bustier 2h damage.
Dw is hitting much harder due to its synergy with frost strike and shatter