So, basically the only two major pieces of Warcraft media that focuses on them?
Got it.
So when you discount the majority of what we’ve seen about them, yeah, I guess they do start looking slightly better don’t they.
So when you discount the majority of what we’ve seen about them, yeah, I guess they do start looking slightly better don’t they.
Have you heard of this thing called ‘character development’?
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As soon as they actually start showing any of it, I’m all ears.
They’ve barely focused on the Blood Elves at all post-TBC.
unfortunately they havent been given much time to develop. Wish we’d see more of what’s been going on since TBC, but Blizz seems pretty uninterested in them since.
What else was that Scryer going to do? Let the Aldor player get away with sleeping with Jimmy’s friend’s mother? 
I don’t disagree, not really. Taken in totality they were probably the greyest race to debut in WoW; often you’ll hear complaints that their redemption left them feeling too nice, too blandly heroic. I agree with that insofar as their paladins go if nothing else. But either way, it makes this guy’s condemnation of the race as “consistently evil” all the funnier.
You didn’t need to spam the board with these links in the first place, I’m not the one who made the argument you’re so offended by. I merely pointed out that the tone and content of baby blood elf questing is pretty innocuous on the whole.
WarcraftWiki is where all the cool kids are getting their lore from these days by the way.
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In TBC.
And yes, most instances of Blood Elves in TBC portrayed them as being morally corrupt as I’ve shown.
So saying they’re some of the most honorable and good-natured people in Warcraft doesn’t make any sense.
And again, we really don’t know how much the Blood Elves have changed as a people post-TBC. We’ve hardly gotten anything on them, so how are there these claims that they’ve become ‘blandly heroic’. There’s really no reason to believe that they’ve become that outside of what the main player character does, who does the same things regardless of race.
I was providing sources to backup what I was saying so it didn’t seem like I was making things up.
You disagreed with me, so I provided an argument as to why I made that claim.
If you didn’t want me to respond and defend my claim, why even post a reply disagreeing with me?
So basically the stuff from Kael’s loyalists being oppressive to the rest of the blood elves. Kinda like how in Vanilla-Cata the night elves had Fandrel and the Tauren had Magatha as internal antagonists/villains?
OH NO! A group fought back against another one that seemed to be sabotaging their defenses against the undead that are still in their land, how evil!
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The argument was about Blood Elves in general, not just Horde Blood Elves.
Did Kael’s forces cease being Blood Elves when following him or something?
They’re just as Blood Elven as those that didn’t follow Kael.
Also, I gave examples of Horde Elves doing objectively morally reprehensible things earlier in the thread:
That wasn’t my point by saying that.
They said that 97% of Ghostlands focused on fighting undead, I gave an example on how that wasn’t true.
But you’re choosing the antagonistic faction of the race to hit the whole race. Are Night Elves evil because of Fandrel and his followers, or the Tauren and the Grimtotem?
The night elves weren’t that many quests, just that one hub area, were they?
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As I’ve said earlier in the thread, Kael’s forces and Quel’thalas were one in the same until Kael betrayed them.
Lor’themar wasn’t depicted as having any problem carrying out what Kael’thas told him to do until he was betrayed, and he’s still the active leader of Quel’thalas now.
The only Blood Elf character that has actively voiced regret on the actions that the Blood Elves took during TBC is Liadrin, if memory serves.
Again, this is a misinterpretation of what I meant.
Maybe I didn’t communicate it all that well earlier, I didn’t mean to portray that I believed Blood Elves were an ‘evil’ race.
My disagreement was with the idea that they’re somehow especially morally upstanding compared to other races in WoW.
There was an entire questline surrounding them.
There’s also only two questhubs in Ghostlands, Tranquilien and Farstrider Enclave.
Tranquilien gives both quests about the undead and the Night Elves whilst Farstrider gives quests about the Amani Trolls iirc.
My point is more that while yes, Kael’s group is part of the blood elf ranks, they’re also basically a villain to most of the rest of them until they break off mid BC. Kael was extremely concerned about what was going on with the withdrawal and went down a bad path to try and fix it. It was extraordinary circumstances, and I just don’t think they’re a good place to look to draw conclusions about the blood elves would be.
Lor’themar did as well in the one short story from after BC where he goes to tell the lodges that broke off that the sunwell was relit.
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That’s why I didn’t use them as the only example, but used post-betrayal Horde Blood Elves as well.
This was the reality of the Blood Elves from War3 to TBC.
It can’t just be ignored, it happened, the actions of the Blood Elves then still define them today and will continue to define them.
We also know that this wasn’t the Blood Elves only option, just look at the High Elves.
And they were banished from Silvermoon, and continue to be banished to this day.
If you’re talking about In the Shadow of the Sun, I don’t think he ever first-hand expresses any regret for his support of Kael’thas, mostly hurt that he was betrayed by him.
In the end, this is largely an issue of Blizzard giving no context as to the current state of Silvermoon so we are left to assume that nothing has really changed.
Then they are people who do art as a hobby, not as their sole passion and advocation. There is nothing demeaning about making your art your living. That’s pursuing your art without distractions.
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Only a couple lodges, and pretty sure that that’s been lifted, but the lodges have just decided to be their own thing, even refusing supplies from Silvermoon. All the other High Elves just couldn’t be bothered to come back.
He expressed definite regret for actions taken during that time, specifically the banishment.
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Only a couple lodges, and pretty sure that that’s been lifted, but the lodges have just decided to be their own thing, even refusing supplies from Silvermoon. All the other High Elves just couldn’t be bothered to come back
IIrc the banishment wasn’t exactly lifted. They were allowed special permission or something like that if it was to make a pilgrimage to the restored Sunwell.
I’ll defer to your judgement, I guess.
I honestly don’t remember the short story all that well.
Still doesn’t change the fact that it happened, and he was an active participant in it.
At this moment I’m fairly certain that it’s still in effect.
The only stipulation is that High Elves are allowed to go on a pilgrimage to the Sunwell one time.
This is largely an issue of Blizzard giving no context as to the current state of Silvermoon
At least when it comes to Lor’themar’s case.
Again, only the lodges were banished, none of the rest of the high elves. There’s no evidence of any sort of prohibition on them returning I’ve seen.
Any source for this limit?
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Hmm… Maybe I’m misremembering there being a limit or not, but I remembered that High Elves in exile were only allowed to return to Quel’thalas on pilgrimage.
h-ttps://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Purification_of_Quel%27Delar
h-ttps://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Remember_the_Sunwell
h-ttps://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/High_elf (under the WotLK section)
Regardless on whether there is a stated limit or not, it really doesn’t change my base argument.
Even if the government of Silvermoon were to change drastically from how it was portrayed in TBC, it still wouldn’t make them any more especially morally upstanding compared to that of any other race in Warcraft.
This is the only real thing I’m arguing here.
I mean, that doesn’t really have anything to do with the high elves pilgramage does it? It’s the Quel’delar alliance quest, which when made, wouldn’t have had any alliance elves other than night elves.
I mean this one makes it seem like they welcome them back if they want to come. Alleria is welcomed warmly, and the only regret is that it’s a working trip seen as trying to apply some light diplomatic pressure from the alliance with one of their heroes. She’s only kicked out when her presence attracts a threat to the Sunwell.
All it says there for the pilgrims is that a number of them were allowed to go to the Sunwell. I mean, with the mention of the SC there, it does seem the story presents the aggression more from the high elves towards the blood elves,.
It happened in Wrath, High Elves were canonically apart of the Alliance since vanilla.
There are Alliance High Elf pilgrim NPCs around the Sunwell.
The Silver Covenant was an Alliance-aligned organization in Wrath.
Alright, but again, this doesn’t really change my argument.
This is just a tangent we’ve gone on.
I don’t really have anything I want to prove with this.
As I said before
Even if the government of Silvermoon were to change drastically from how it was portrayed in TBC, it still wouldn’t make them any more especially morally upstanding compared to that of any other race in Warcraft.
Especially with their past and how they were consistently portrayed from War3-TBC.
The original statement as per Kixvar’s post painted the Blood Elves as being especially morally upstanding in the past and the present, which I disagreed with.