At a lot of companies, even low level employees are given access to marketing meetings. Some companies even have internal vods of them that employees can later review if they really want to. Some are exhausting, hour-long slogs.
Some of us are silly enough to actually watch the vods.
Oh, the things I’ve heard marketing teams say…
Well, it is wrong.
It is quite clear that the Horde was officially sold Saurfang’s plan.
By Saurfang’s own reaction to the burning of Teldrassil, it is clear that this was not his plan whatsoever.
So the Horde as a whole did not know that Sylvanas wanted to burn the tree. Question is if Sylvanas even knew she wanted to burn the tree until threw a hissy fit. But that is besides the point.
But yeah, that is the part that is stupid.
But blizzard is not exactly known for their consistency.
I would argue that Genn’s attack on Sylvanas and the Horde in the Legion preemptively vindicated the war, atleast Saurfang’s intentions. That was kinda the proving point of Sylvanas’ argument when she sold him on the necessity of the war.
I think you are underestimating it.
And possibly overestimating Blizzard’s ability for storytelling and keeping things consistent.
Right now things has happened as they did, of course… and the way things happened were stupid. At the end of the day, a faction war just does not make sense at all, all things considered.
Do you understand what my point is?
So much this, people who never got over blood elves being horde like to cling to this for some reason.
At best it could have been -a- reason but not the reason or the only reason or even the main reason. I’m sure a lot of factors were into consideration but people will willfully ignore the story to point to this theory which they feel validates some grievance they have or another.
We are likely at a cross-roads, because I look at it from a perspective of “if we had to have a faction war, this would be the most sensible way to do it”
But I do understand that a faction war is just not very sensible overall, and it is better to just omit it.
And after the Second War, Anasterian would prove his pridefulness by seceding from the Alliance of Lordaeron because ‘lmao thanks for beating up the trolls, second war is done debt paid rofl~’. While Terenas Menethil would attempt to re-establish connections, Sunstrider would be unmoved. “Their problems are not our problems”.
Menethil’s son becomes the Lich King and would later drag his blade across Anasterian’s face, and the rest of Quel’thalas.
Sin’dorei then have the balls to claim the Alliance abandoned them, when in fact they were likely a contributing reason to why Lordaeron folded like a cheap plastic chair.
It would honestly be no wonder that the Alliance of Stormwind would look so dubiously upon them.
Sounds a lot like the entire WCIII story was actually about them alienating themselves and seeking new, dangerous allies elsewhere. Which they found.
And then they would quell any attempt at dissention by using shadow magic to force change the minds of detractors, likely spread propaganda to make it seem like the Alliance attacked them instead of the… scourge, which it actually was, and… gosh it just gets messier.
If we had to do another faction war and the Horde is made to attack the Night Elves and occupy their homes, hold the civilians as hostages and prisoners it would not have made the Horde look better.
Their villain bat would have been well-earned.
What would the Horde daily quests be in Teldrassil?
Raid civilian houses?
Kill or imprison dissenting voices?
Beat civilians into submission?
Stop Alliance rescue attempts?
Or “positive quests” like reprimand Horde soldiers who are known to abuse the civilians?
Whether Teldrassil burned or occupied everything surrounding it would have villainbat the Horde unless Blizzard wrote the whole event like the Horde doing the Night Elves a favor by occupying them. It would have pissed everyone off regardless.
If we had to do a faction war, then it should have been done completely differently. Focus on Azerite and the arms race for faction supremacy.
Well at least in this case, really feels like dude liked the attention he got last time he dropped that tidbit, and this time he’s cut out the “I vaguely remember” from the beginning.
That was not an action of the faction as a whole. That was Valen acting on his own, presumably at the request of the Naaru of Shattrah. Even if you want to drag Valen’s Alliance tag into this, at best, it’s a balancing of the atrocities committed by the Alliance leaders Arthas and Garithos who between them slaughtered 90 percent of the original population.
Wait there was an “I vaguely remember” last time? Man I’m not on the Lore forums enough.
Also it seems weird to put Arthas Menethil and Othmar Garithos in the same breath as ‘slaughtered 90 percent of the original population’, without even mentioning the Scourge or Cult of the Damned or… any of their actual motivations.
Yeah, the dev in question said that in 2020 in an interview, that he vaguely remembered that they were added to give pretty options to the horde so that Asian player’s girlfriends would have that as an incentive.
The looks have always been a part, but a lot of people will hyper focus on that one statement and ignore all the other ones like statements from Metzen about all the other more story based and creative based reasons that they went with the Blood Elves as they did.
We’re-… We’re not just going to gloss over this statement, are we?
Do you people know anything about the race you claim to like so much?
How can anyone in good faith say this with a straight face, how is it possible.
Literally throw a dart at a map of Quel’thalas and do a single quest associated with that area, my god.
Every quest associated with the Blood Elves in TBC, regardless of whatever faction those Blood Elves were apart of, shows them as being consistently evil or doing terrible things.
This is a sillier statement than the one you quoted. The execution of a spy is the darkest thing to go down in Eversong and about 95% of Ghostlands questing is spent fighting the Scourge.
Image of Velen says: May the Light have mercy on your soul. Take him back to his cell.
Matis says: The Light?
Matis laughs.
Matis says: I am Blood Knight, mongrel. I do not serve the Light, the Light serves me. If mercy is to be granted, it will be by me.
Matis says: You seek to martyr me before my order - so be it. Strike me down, another will rise in my place and the suffering of the Light - of the conquered - will continue uninterrupted.
Vindicator Kuros says: You blaspheme! The Light would never allow such an aberration!
Matis says: The Light has no choice. It does as it is commanded. Just as the naaru you hold at the core of your vessel will do when we capture and enslave it… Do my words surprise you, blue blood? Yes we know… We know everything.
Image of Velen says: Take him away.
The Blade of Argus steps up to Matis.
Blade of Argus says: Move!
Matis starts walking back on his own, but then turns around.
Matis says: Draenei dog! Did you know that the one you call Saruan wept like a babe as I beat him? A feeling of euphoria coursed through me, knowing that I had a member of high rank in my grasp. Were it not for Sironas’ plans for him, I would have tortured him to death… As I do to all draenei that I capture. Alas, I am certain that you will see him again soon…
idk pretty evil during TBC (the only time belves got any attention) so yknow
I’m sorry, what?
That’s-… That’s just not true.
What about the mindcontrol of Blood Elven civilian protestors?
h-ttps://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Priest_Ennas
The harassment of random merchants?
h-ttps://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Harassed_Citizen
The guards mentioning how happiness is mandatory, walking around spouting propaganda
h-ttps://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Arcane_golem
How about the fact that while all the other Blood Elves are scrape together and survive, the elites are throwing parties without a care in the world?
h-ttps://www.wowhead.com/tbc/quest=9067/the-party-never-ends
There’s quests in the Ghostlands about enslaving elementals to their will
h-ttps://www.wowhead.com/quest=9157/forgotten-rituals
Among many other examples.
Also, a large collection of quests in Ghostlands tackle fighting the Night Elves…
So, not just undead.
Kael’s goons were pretty nasty, yes. They were the Horde’s antagonists too. Chronicles even retconned them into Silvermoon’s main antagonists in TBC.
Not really. Most of the stuff blood elf players get up to in their starting zones is pretty generic hero fare. Fetch reagent X for Magister Y, fight the mindless zombies, fight the mana zombies, fight the maniacal trolls. Not that all was peachy keen in post-Scourged Quel’Thalas - the blood elves didn’t get a redemption arc for nothing in TBC - but nothing you cited is proof of racial evil. That’s obscene.
The Sentinel Spies really weren’t presented as any more sympathetic than the Scourge or Amani in the questing, you know.
In fairness, that particular example involves Kael’thas’ followers from Outland. The majority blood elves back in Azeroth didn’t know how twisted and cruel their brethren in Outland had become ever since they started working with the Burning Legion.
The blood elves in Netherstorm especially - of which those in Bloodmyst had been a part - were shown to have become singularly monstrous in their behavior while under the influence of the demons and large amounts of fel. To the point that they were extremely bloodthirsty and basically enslaving any of their kin who successfully made the pilgrimage there from Azeroth
Kael’s goons were pretty nasty, yes. They were the Horde’s antagonists too.
Yeah, they were one of the antagonists of TBC. Point being that they were Blood Elves, many of them of the upper classes of their society, and they were extremely heinous.
Not really about all of x race being evil. Don’t think that exists in WoW and thats a good thing. But to claim Belves as one of the most morally pure is p silly. Especially when we get basically nothing on what they’re up to nowadays.
Most of the stuff blood elf players get up to in their starting zones is pretty generic hero fare.
Hero character aside can’t deny the mind controlling dissidents thing is pretty awful. Silvermoon is presented as an (understandably) terrible place in Eversong. The belves resort to pretty bad stuff in order to take back control. Which is cool btw I like the Belves story in TBC for this exact reason.
Hell even the Scryers just go and poison the drinks of the Aldor on Outland for… some reason??? Never really got that.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’ve been saying.
My original reply was a rebuttal to the idea that:
Which is plainly untrue.
You do realize that Kael’thas’ forces and the Blood Elves in Quel’thalas were one and the same up until he betrays them, right?
The character that Mondocool is quoting is a Blood Knight, a member of the same order of Blood Knights we play as in TBC.
We know there was contact between Kael’s forces and Quel’thalas during TBC, it’s not as if they were entirely no-contact.
Like killing another member of your order to prove a point to all its initiates?
h-ttps://www.wowhead.com/tbc/quest=64319/a-study-in-power
What about the previous examples I gave about all the corruption within Silvermoon itself?
I provided plenty of examples, do you want more?
But even going beyond the basic Eversong quests, the Blood Elf’s quests on Outland are equally as brutal, and they were undeniably members of the Horde then.
Like killing Draenei Anchorites and Vindicators trying to stop the fel corruption of a sacred site so they can use the ‘felblood’ for themselves:
h-ttps://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Cleansing_Must_Be_Stopped
h-ttps://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/In_Need_of_Felblood
How about helping an Apothecary carry out experiments on Draenei prisoners to see how they can weaponize Krokul corruption:
h-ttps://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Source_of_the_Corruption
Debatable how much of a ‘redemption arc’ this exactly was, considering we have seen no progress in how the political climate of Quel’thalas has changed since TBC, it’s all up to speculation.
And once again, this wasn’t an argument about Belves being inherently evil if that’s what you think I’m saying.
I’m claiming that saying they’re ‘exceptional morally’ as compared to other races is ridiculous when you consider anything we’ve seen about them.
Which is plainly untrue.
Except it isn’t. The Thalassians in general have always been pretty decent, it’s just that they saw one of the darkest moments of their history in Wc3-TBC. Post TBC, the only remnant of their activities during this would be their studying of the Anima from the Isle of Thunder.