Unlerss you’re starving in a garett or being kept as a pet by some rich patron, a professional artist sells their craft. They aren’t “selling out” any more than a cabinet maker is selling out by building cabinets for sale.
As Harlan Ellison would put it… “We all sell our souls… the key is getting paid the right price.”
God forbid we, the starving and desperate playerbase, be denied the stunning artistic vision of “the Elves, Dwarves and Humans all banded together to fight the savage Orcs. The pretty people won and the ugly people lost and all was right with the world.”
The loss of that story is truly devastating. How will we survive without it? How will ART ITSELF survive without it!?
Considering the turn Warcraft overall took.
Art clearly does not survive when it deviates from tropes.
Not necessarily. Plenty of artists create purely for the joy of their art. They have other means of income, other forms of employment. An artist is not only valid by selling what they create, and that’s a very shallow way to regard the matter.
Who says we didn’t get that vision? The pretty people still won and the ugly people still lost. This time it just included people who were ugly on the inside on the losing side too.
The Blood Elves are, surprisingly, one of the most honorble and good-natured people in Warcraft.
While their methods could be considered drastic, it was a means to survival under VERY volatile conditions. The Alliance was on the hunt, stomping on the Blood Elves after the fall of Quel’thalas and the corruption and later destruction of the Sunwell, making the Blood Elves deal with external attacks and extreme weakness due to what was then shown to be withdrawals from an addiction to the magical energies they had been fed for thousands of years. The Blood Elves, despite the challenges, showed to still be fairly cordial.
Kael’thas Sunstrider even was instrumental in Tyrande surviving.
But despite their efforts of reconnecting after Garithos and just trying to survive, and still having to deal with remnants of scourge in Quel’thalas, the Alliance still chose to betray them.
The Blood Elves even kept the namesake ‘Blood Elf’ due to the meaning behind it, despite the betrayal of the royalty who named the race as such. To honor those who died when the scourge attacked.
The Blood Elves had some dark undertones, but despite it all, they were still among the most good-natured races in Warcraft, more so even than their counterparts still calling themselves High Elves - for obvious reasons. The fact alone that they still call themselves High Elves is telling enough, but there are other reasons of course.
All things considered, the Blood Elves fit the bill of the original concept of the Horde. The heroic underdog, who despite all odds, still prevails.
The Blood Elves are, surprisingly, one of the most honorble and good-natured people in Warcraft.
Yeah, they unironically have one of the strongest codes of decency in Warcraft.
pretty, ugly, pretty, ugly…
Both Factions were pretty ugly until the Sindorei skin was allowed to be playable.
Even Void Elves were just slapped onto the Alliance as a copy. Because the Alliance needed to be prettied up, itself.
Have you seen the in game map of Lordaeron + Quel’thalas? Even in WC3, Silverpine was on the western coast of Lordaeron while Quel’thalas is in the north east.
At least I know where zones are relative to one another.
Going to disagree with both of these assessments.
Firstly, how does one judge an entire race in a manner like this? At best, we could judge nations. Now, if we’re to judge a nation, then the Blood Elves aren’t looking too good. For starters, even they admit they walked a dark path prior to the Sunwell’s restoration, torturing a pure being for power (M’uru), resorting to an, ‘ends justify the means,’ mentality less so for their survival and moreso for their comfort. The High Elves are proof that the addiction was something that could be managed without draining living creatures of mana, and indeed, it was only ever elves who overindulged in mana whom became the Wretched, which was virtually all Blood Elves until Cata.
Passing over all of that as a matter of desperation, the Sunwell was restored, and what happened then? Did the Blood Elves make peace with the Alliance, the faction which canonically restored and purified the Sunwell? No. It went right back to slaughtering them.
You can’t even give the Blood Elves much props for loyalty, either. Ignoring their relationship with the Alliance, they were fully intending to rejoin the Alliance during MoP, until Garrosh grew a brain cell, learned of their imminent treason, and then launched a Machiavellian plot to put a stop to that. He had the Sunreavers betray the Kirin Tor to put an end to that treason.
Just about all of that one could handwave away as a product of circumstances, until we get to BFA. We had a 1:1 reenactment of the Fall of Quel’Thalas with the Night Elves playing the role of the High Elves, and the Horde playing the role of the Scourge, and lest we forget, the Blood Elves took an active role in the War of Thorns. Not a one apparently stopped to go, “Wait… this seems familiar, and not in a good way.” In fact, given Lor’themar’s dialogue later on in the expansion, apparently the majority of Blood Elves supported the genocidal Banshee Queen Arthas Allegory.
This isn’t to say the Blood Elves don’t have honorable individuals among them, or are incapable of compassion and kindness, but this is not something we see very often, whereas what snippets we do get talking about them at large suggests something much darker.
Can’t judge them because they did not live under similar circumstances. The High Elves chilled away in Dalaran or Stormwind (Good thing to abandon your people after total tragedy), only the High Elves in Outland got any action, and they fed off draenei tech.
As was mentioned. The Blood Elves in Quel’thalas were not only dealing with scourge remnants, but also the Alliance who chose to go ahead and stomp on them while they were down. Of course, there was also the resurgence of Amani trolls.
There is also the fact, that the youngest, oldest and those already very weakened died in the aftermath of the Sunwell’s destruction. There wasn’t exactly the luxury of time while believing that the people would die if they did not find alternative means.
No, the Alliance did not restore the Sunwell. Velen and the Naaru had their plans to do so from the very beginning. M’uru and every step up until the Sunwell’s restoration was a laid out plan by Velen and the Naaru. The Alliance deserves no credit for that, and even if they did, the Blood Elves themselves played an integral part in the Sunwell’s restoration. Remember that the offensive was a coalition of Draenei and Blood Elves. Not Draenei, Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Night Elves. No… Draenei and Blood Elves… and notice the lack of High Elves in there.
Talk about ungrateful, look at the treatment the Blood Elves face at the hand of ‘High Elves’.
Garrosh was slaughtering the Blood Elves even before he found out about that crap. The Blood Elves were obviously not going to try and stay with that. Really trying to prove something here? The Blood Elves were betrayed, not the other way around.
Personally, I would say that the Night Elves had it coming. They DID go to Quel’thalas and actively tried to kill the Blood Elves while the Blood Elves were extremely weak and already had to deal with scourge remnants and amani trolls coming out of the woodworks.
But the Horde joined Saurfang’s version of the plan for the war. Not Sylvanas’. Saurfang laid out the official plan, Sylvanas had her own ulterior motives.
Lor’themar’s dialogue does not suggest he supported Sylvanas’ actions.
That said, BFA is terrible writing all in all.
Blizzard may have intended to show the Blood Elves as somewhat evil… but hell, this just shows that their writing have never been very well thought out.
What? Dalaran was not even safe for a good chunk of time with Rhonin/Vereesa having to hid out in the mountains.
Also it is thanks high elves who stayed with the Alliance that there is even an Azeroth left! So the blood elves can keep their indignation considering they owe their continued existance to the high elves.
Well, there was also the High Elves at the lodges. You know, like Quel’Danil in the Hinterlands where they went cold turkey on magic. That said, if a destroyed Dalaran somehow had enough magical artifacts surviving Archimonde’s utter destruction of the place, I’m surprised Quel’Thalas didn’t have more laying around.
Hyperbole does not become you. The Alliance’s presence in Eversong and the Ghostlands was one of Scouting/Spying (still pretty awful, but a far cry from, ‘stomping on the Blood Elves while they were down). Indeed, the first major indication of conflict we have comes from the Blood Elves wiping out one of the Night Elves’ camps.
Chronicles, Page 159.
There it is for you, in black and white. The Sunwell’s restoration had not been planned out by Velen and the Naaru at all. Velen was there to pay his respects, and found M’uru’s core had survived, and used it to restore and purify the Sunwell. M’uru’s sacrifice was always intended to help redeem the Blood Elves, but there’s no indication they expected this specific outcome.
In the end, the Alliance drove Kil’jaeden back, and Velen restored the Sunwell. Talk about ungrateful.
As for no High Elves being present, who’s to say? We never saw any in game, the Chronicles doesn’t make mention of it, but I don’t see it as beyond Blizzard to retroactively add one or two on a whim. With the Chronicles just saying, “The Alliance,” rather than, “Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Night Elves, and Draenei,” it leaves the door open to those sorts of shenanigans.
Having said that, it’d also be pretty tricky for someone to enter a land they’ve been exiled from to defend it. The Silver Covenant needed an outright invitation from the Ranger-General of Quel’Thalas to help defend it against the Amani in Cataclysm, and even then Lor’themar wanted them gone.
Garrosh was using them as fodder for his war, not slaughtering them. It’s what the Blood Elves signed up for when they joined the Horde. They abide by the Warchief’s commands. If the Warchief commands a troop to die so others may live, they obey. That’s how the Horde worked. The Blood Elves wound up with cold feet when they realized this war wasn’t really their war, and they felt misused. As a result, they started reconsidering old alliances.
The point here is, the Blood Elves put their own interests as their first priority.
Remind me which part of Saurfang’s plan included genocide, again?
This point and the one I addressed above go back to proving what I said. The Blood Elves’ first priority is themselves. Even if it means inflicting on others the same tragedy that so scarred them, they’d do it if it meant they came out one step ahead of the game.
Terrible writing abounds, starting with the Forsaken and Night Elves even picking a faction when they could’ve both been neutral, and continuing all the way to Dragonflight, with a few up points sprinkled in the fecal pile.
Kind of circling back to the point of the thread. The Blood Elves were added to the Horde not because the writing was well thought out, but because it was profitable. Their writing hasn’t exactly been great in general, but honestly… that’s something that’s applicable to every race and nation in this entire franchise. Blizzard’s narrative was dictated by the Rule of Cool and $$$$, not what was well thought out or written well.
Good for the High Elves at Quel’Lithien that they could survive in Quel’danas when Blood Elves that learned the magic-siphoning technique returned and rescued everyone. Yes, Quel’Danil went cold turkey, good for them, still does not change the information the Blood Elves had at the time… or their situation. Good for Quel’danil that they had the Wildhammer dwarves.
The fact that the Night elves were willing to kill any who discovered their plans of spying, already escalated the conflict. This started already from Eversong Woods. Also, potential sabotage of a key structures. Whether it happeend or not, the Night Elves made themselves look like the culprits.
Don’t care, the entire thing was set in motion by Velen as A’dal revealed in the Burning Crusade when Liadrin came to ask forgiveness. Prophet Velen had foreseen M’uru’s capture, and the fact that it would eventually lead to the Blood Elves’ “redemption”. M’uru could have escaped the fate, but chose not to for the sake of this vision.
As for the High Elves, they were just freeloaders. The only High Elves deserving any kind of sympathy, were the Quel’Lithien ones, who actively took part in the fight for survival in Quel’danas after the Sunwell’s destruction, and were promptly exiled for a disagreement.
But given how the leader of that Lodge was presented, I can’t imagine that disagreement being less than volatile, so can not fault Lor’themar for the exile either. Now, THAT is hyberbole.
They were not exiled right after the scourge destroyed Quel’danas or after the Sunwell’s destruction. It took a long time. They didn’t even choose to return with Kael’thas from Dalaran.
So slaughtering them.
They did not choose to sign up with the Horde. They were forced to sign up with the Horde by the Alliance.
None.
But the Horde plan was not sold as a genocidal war. Didn’t you know? The initial plan was to capture Teldrassil and keep the population as prisoners of war to force a lasting peace and military dominance through azerite, not to burn down the tree and kill everyone - that was Sylvanas’ ulterior motive.
None of the elves should ever have been playable to begin with.
So keeping a population in an open air prison under the thumb of a Horde occupying force in perpetuity is… somehow better?
Slavery or death… neat.
Good? No.
Better than the slaughtering of innocents? Yes.
They are both equally bad.
I don’t think you understand the gravity and dehumanizing torture of keeping a people under captivity like that. The Horde would have been as merciful as the Japanese occupations of asia.
Whatever product was sold to the rest of the Horde was bad. They should not have agreed period. There was no good idea to subscribe to.
Assumptions.
It is bad, yes.
Does not mean the population would be treated badly though.
It is still dehumanizing though, and I would personally not live under it, to be nothing more than an object, a tool in negotiations.
But it is a result of BFA’s overall terrible plot. The fact that Sylvanas even managed to sell the idea to Saurfang, that this war was needed to seal a permanent peace, is stupid when Anduin was at the lead of the Alliance… Anduin of all people.
I guess I could be convinced that Saurfang did not know Anduin at that point, and he could be convinced that Genn could somehow sway Anduin towards declaring war on the Horde.
But the fact that every Horde member went along with the continued war after Sylvanas burned down the tree was beyond stupid. But that was also the moment I cut away from the story. It just made no sense.
But the idea of having prisoners of war in order to permanently stop any future wars and thus in the long run save millions of lives from being lost. The context of it is far better than than mercilessly slaughtering innocents.
My point is even the initial plan was horrific. No Horde leader should have agreed to it.
There is no excuse at all to justify the war or justify the strategy, even from the very beginning.
There is no single doubt that it would have been horrific.
We have seen how the Horde treats civilians in the war, whether we are looking at the Horde under Garrosh or under Sylvanas.
The Night Elves under Horde captivity would have been brutalized just as Theramore citizens were brutalized, or Brennadam’s, or the night elf captives in dark shore etc and etc.
I could be convinced that the Horde leaders could indeed be convinced to a version of it - Saurfang’s version of it. Maybe except Baine.
Do you still think they were sold the idea that they wanted to burn down the tree?
But not under Saurfang.
Saurfang was a major player, whether he was warchief or not. Sylvanas even had to greenlight a war with him in the first place, or atleast felt the need to, either out of fear of him or because she knew his name held too much sway.
His name was important.
We know how Alliance deserters were treated while Saurfang was present.
But not how civilians would have been treated with Saurfang present.
And my point is that this was still a terrible thing to be convinced of.
Yes because they still followed Sylvanas afterwards. They even rushed to her defense in Lordaeron.
Saurfang would have been called away to oversee other conflicts.
People don’t meekly submit to being kept prisoners, there would have been resistance, there would have been reprisals and the Horde would have done what they always do.
I think you are over estimating how much Saurfang’s presence and name would have impacted things. At siege of lordaeron Sylvanas still used the blight, and still raised her own fallen soldiers as skeleton soldiers and nobody bat an eye.
There is no version of the war of thorns that would have vindicated the Horde or Saurfang.