Flying: Why must we wait until 8.2?

[Felonious-kaelthas (Felonious)]

I don’t want flying back. I don’t need flying back. And I hope after this expansion, we lose it permanently. It was cool feature when it was introduced, now it’s just used to skip/rush through content. There’s no flying specific content and there really hasn’t been for a long time, so there’s no reason to have flying.

You have the option to not fly, even when it is introduced. Perhaps to you there are no reasons to have it. To others, there are plenty of reasons.

[Daiklave-silvermoon (Daiklave)]

Actually, I like my idea much better. You’re free to disagree.

Thank you for removing all doubt that you are nothing but a selfish idiot that wants things their way or no way.

You’re crossing a line. I don’t happen to agree with Velara, but I understand their frustration. Nobody should be as angrily self righteous as you in the defense of Blizzard’s poorly implemented designs.

[Gunny-earthen-ring (Gunny)]

They also know that when P2 drops people who have unsubbed will come back for at least a few months to grind it out. Just another wilted carrot on a drooping stick.

[Beezlebubba-emerald-dream (Beezlebubba)]

you think you want flying but you dont.

[Dayon-wyrmrest-accord (Dayon)]

I don’t get why you lack the simple ability in understanding what an opinion is, and allow people their basic rights to have them.

Because there’s a pervasive sense of entitlement, and it comes across like that whenever you describe the feature as a ‘right’. Calling it ‘fun’ makes it more defensible because you’re trying to frame the opposition as the ‘anti-fun’ crowd.

I just don’t believe you when you claim it really is all about ‘fun’.

It just doesn’t pass the sniff test with me. I hate it when people pretend their argument is something other than what it is because they know they couldn’t actually stand on their original point.

[Felonious-kaelthas (Felonious)]

Dayon, it’s a good thing it doesn’t have to pass your ‘sniff test’. What other people find fun doesn’t have to be validated by you.

[Dayon-wyrmrest-accord (Dayon)]

Sorry, but I don’t think anyone believes discussion about something ends just because someone says ‘but it’s fun’.

[Antiman-thrall (Antiman)]

You’re crossing a line. I don’t happen to agree with Velara, but I understand their frustration. Nobody should be as angrily self righteous as you in the defense of Blizzard’s poorly implemented designs.

I have come down on Blizzard for their mistakes as well, to put it another way: Ones like Velara accuse Blizzard of wanting things their way or no way, and they do, yet so do ones like her (only going by character portrait), who ignore ideas like putting flight for gold back in as an option in favor of a “nope, flight for gold only” attitude.

If ones like Velara got their way, those of us that like the idea, if not execution, of pathfinder would potentially be screwed yet Blizzard screws ones like her by refusing to at least give players choice on how they want to get flight.

If I am coming across as “angrily self righteous in defense of Blizzard’s poorly implemented designs” it is because I am getting sick and tired of “my way or no way” attitudes when I am trying to post ideas for compromise that satisfy both sides.

Really, in one of my responses to Velara I even stated

If you wanted to argue for the OPTION of flight for gold at max level for 1 character, that would be fine.

and while I deserve being called out for some of my comments (shut up about flight for gold and the one you called me out for) all it takes to avoid such with me is the appearance they have read all I have put down and counter those arguments. Again I’ll lay down my solution to the fight for flight

All in all, my solution to the fight for flight comes down to:

1. let players choose to buy it for gold or complete an achievement for it
2. develop content that requires flight to experience, and give us threats in the air
3. repeat 1 and 2 for each patch if you don’t want people flying in new content from the get-go, for the buying for gold maybe just require content intro quests to be done before it can be bought (just talking like the assault on the broken shore with the class orders here)

People can feel free to add to it, take from it or adjust it as they see fit, I just have 1 requirement: it has to at least give both sides of the the ones that want flight (pro-pathfinder and anti-pathfinder)what they want in some fashion preferably, but not required, with a nod towards blizzard bot wanting players to fly in “new content” from the start of said content.

I also understand Velara’s frustration, I have done Pathfinder and am ready to fly NOW. For me there is no reason once pathfinder part 1 has been completed for flight to be restricted. However, my frustration gets increased because I am in the freaking middle and trying to come up with solutions that both sides can live with in the long run with potential to change later on.

Would anyone really object to having a choice between flight for gold and pathfinder? I would not think so, especially if both had their ups and downs. Yet, because it does not do away with Pathfinder, I sometimes feel even that is shot down because it does not fit a “my way or the highway” attitude. If anyone has any worthwhile objections to flight for gold being an option, I’ll hear them out. Just as I should not be so “angrily self righteous in defense of blizzard” no one should be so stubborn that they refuse to compromise.

[Netherlights-silver-hand]

Blizzard, please do not enable flying in Warmode.

Oh gods! Could you imagine? That would be a massacre

[Andrilynn-bloodhoof (Andrilynn)]

I just don’t believe you when you claim it really is all about ‘fun’.

And I don’t care what you believe. We do not see eye to eye on this subject. Which is fine, but instead of accepting and respecting that, you have belittled my likes, my opinions and are NOW implying that I’m lying when I say I find it fun. Your utter need to devalue others opinions about what they enjoy, in any way you can, is unhealthy.

[Zaranthosdk-icecrown (Zaranthosdk)]

I hope they delay it longer tbh. Tears of entitlement.

nom nom nom

I paid for BfA and months of game time I’m not using. The expansion sucks. Not flying sucks.

I more than paid for my right to say this dev team and their vision of the game sucks.

Tears? I won’t shed any tears over this game, I just won’t spend another penny on it or waste my time playing it in the run down state it’s in.

The devs have an anti-flying agenda. They can lie and falsely claim excuses like “immersion” or whatever they want. The game was more fun with flying at or before max level than it is now. Removing flying did nothing to improve the game, all it did was piss off a whole lot of players who are either ex-players, or soon to be ex-players.

You’ll find more tears inside Blizzard HQ these days as they mourn the decline of the game they love while the devs drive it into the ground.

[Kithanne-feathermoon]

I said the guy was constructing a straw man for imposing limitations on the baseline type of movement, which is just walking and running.

The limitations that other poster listed are the very limitations that anti-flight people have suggested be implemented for flying mounts. Since the riding skill is a spectrum, any limitation placed on flying mounts needs to apply to ground mounts as well. Flight (especially fast flight) already has extra costs associated with it, it does not need additional limitations. Flight has always had extra costs, from the old expansion specific flight licenses to the current pathfinder achievement. I will point out that there are other games (not as popular as wow) that do have such limitations on running vs walking.

If you want to impose additional limitations to flight, then you need to be willing to accept those same limitations on your ground mounts. You want a fatigue meter on flying mounts? Then you get one on your ground mounts as well. You want to impose maintenance fees on flying mounts? Ground mounts get them as well. You want a cool down on how soon after dismounting we can remount? It applies to all mounts. I’m sure these “fun” changes to how mounts work will be greeted with joy by all. /s

When it comes right down to it, all mounts are simply movement enhancing buffs with a visual element. That is all they need to be. Ground mounts are fun because of the speed and effortlessness of using them. I (and many others) find the additional freedom of flying mounts even more fun.

[Dayon-wyrmrest-accord (Dayon)]

I remain unconvinced.

[Dayon-wyrmrest-accord (Dayon)]

Since the riding skill is a spectrum, any limitation placed on flying mounts needs to apply to ground mounts as well.

Just for full clarity, I’d be fine with limitations on ground mounts. I want ground mounts to function like the ram mounts on the brewfest race, where skillful timing can keep your mount at a good speed, but you could also tire your mount out if you pushed it too hard. The reason I’m not talking more about ground mounts is because this thread isn’t about them.

The crux of the arguing for or against flying revolves around one thing: The Z-Axis, and how much access you have to it. People are lying if they claim they can’t see how unlimited access to the Z-Axis can be abused to trivialize the game and bypass obstacles.

Ground mounts cannot access the Z-Axis. That is the limitation they have in comparison the flying mounts, and it’s a big enough limitation that many people could reasonably argue that it would be excessive to impose anymore.

So when you say all mounts are just movement enhancing buffs with a visual element, you are technically correct but you are being overly reductive. Ground mounts are made obsolete by the flying mounts because they can do everything a standard ground mount can do, except they can also move freely into the Z-Axis whenever. In that regard, flying mounts and ground mounts are definitely not the same so you really can’t argue that they’re even on the same spectrum.

Regarding costs, there’s a difference between acquisition costs and, for a lack of a better phrase ‘skill cost’, and I’m not talking about acquisition. I’m talking strictly about what you do once airborne, and there’s absolutely nothing to it because you can hover indefinitely and I think that’s a bad system because it’s not engaging.

[Zaranthosdk-icecrown (Zaranthosdk)]

I find myself really missing WotLK where you got flying before max level. That was truly fun.

[Mahatma-blackwater-raiders (Mahatma)]

I want the entire Riding Profession to be reformed.

Personally, the only change to the riding skill that I would tolerate would be if they made it work somewhat like the mounts in EQ2 do.

As I said in a previous comment, aside from a couple of annoyances, flying in EQ2 works much the way it does in wow. However, there are a few differences to how all mounts work, and ground mounts have a special feature that makes it worthwhile to switch from a flying mount to a ground mount.

You see, in EQ2, you never actually get dismounted. Instead, you mount is “hidden” if you are in a location or situation that would dismount you in wow. You can also choose whether or not your mount is “hidden” when you are in combat. This is important, because ground mounts (and only ground mounts), provide you with a buff to your stats.

As for this:

I want ground mounts to function like the ram mounts on the brewfest race, where skillful timing can keep your mount at a good speed, but you could also tire your mount out if you pushed it too hard.

All I can say is: YUCK! I absolutely HATE the brewfest mounts.

[Gunny-earthen-ring (Gunny)]

If I am coming across as “angrily self righteous in defense of Blizzard’s poorly implemented designs” it is because I am getting sick and tired of “my way or no way” attitudes when I am trying to post ideas for compromise that satisfy both sides.

It’s a simple compromise to put forward. Complete Pathfinder 1 and then get flying. By that point you have likely completed all leveling quests, the bulk of World Quests that are tied to reputation, and have obviously ground out the reputation. You have “experienced” the ground game and been through all the content Blizzard wants you to experience. Most of it multiple times.

There’s an achievement tied to this solution, not a gold expense. It still provides a time gate, but not one that feels completely pointless and artificial (looking at the wait for P2 and then P2). And lets you fly in content that is still semi-relevant.

[Trafficz-sargeras (Trafficz)]

keep this glorious thread at the top where it belongs

[Uthran-khadgar]

Please stop talking about flight I can literally feel my immersion being broken

[Eilane-kilrogg]

I want the entire Riding Profession to be reformed.

Personally, the only change to the riding skill that I would tolerate would be if they made it work somewhat like the mounts in EQ2 do.

As I said in a previous comment, aside from a couple of annoyances, flying in EQ2 works much the way it does in wow. However, there are a few differences to how all mounts work, and ground mounts have a special feature that makes it worthwhile to switch from a flying mount to a ground mount.

You see, in EQ2, you never actually get dismounted. Instead, you mount is “hidden” if you are in a location or situation that would dismount you in wow. You can also choose whether or not your mount is “hidden” when you are in combat. This is important, because ground mounts (and only ground mounts), provide you with a buff to your stats.

As for this:

I want ground mounts to function like the ram mounts on the brewfest race, where skillful timing can keep your mount at a good speed, but you could also tire your mount out if you pushed it too hard.

All I can say is: YUCK! I absolutely HATE the brewfest mounts.

There’s an idea, ground mounts now cap at 310%, flying mounts at 100%. People get to keep their flying mounts. You can ruin your immersion at 100% and I can enjoy mine at 310%!