Flying: Why must we wait until 8.2?

[Antiman-thrall (Antiman)]

Why do defenders always go back to “normally playing the game”? Normally playing the game for me is getting Loremaster and Explorer during levelling and then with flying doing world end game, gathering, pet battling, archaeology…if the first is any good

Because that is what the bulk of pathfinder part one usually is: Exploration, Loremaster and story.

Who really is the lazy one here? They one who plays alts through the story several times and separately gets them flying or the one who just plays one character to unlock flying for all?

Good question, because here is one tiny detail about me: I have done the requirements for pathfinder on more then 1 character as is, only thing pathfinder does for me, alt wise, is save me time and money on the characters I seldom play so they don’t have the bankroll my other ones have.

The meta is a list of achievements that most players would not do without Pathfinder.

Speculation, no one can say for sure how many would or would not do them without pathfinder.

Most players also wouldn’t do endless WQs because they are in dungeons and raids.

Things they don’t need flight for, so why give it to them? Even I admit the WQs are a bit much, but that is more because I would rather be doing content I find fun then daily “chores” I can’t cut down the time it takes for them.

Must agree. I don’t know a single player (and have played for 14 years on 6 servers) who, of their own initiative, would do every single thing on the Pathfinder chore list.

Then you don’t know a wide group of players, at least not more then just general acquaintances. I do most of the “pathfinder chore lies” when I level up my characters and the rest? (mostly finishing up reps, WQs and the last bit of story) I liken to the having to grind out the gold in past expansions.

As apposed to people who liked paying for flying with gold at max level in a game they pay every month to play and buy each new expansion? Those entitled people?

No, as opposed to the ones that liked paying with gold because they did not even do one zone while leveling to max, the ones that do nothing but complain that there is no content because they don’t even do the content provided.

I’m an ex Blizzard customer that won’t be giving any more of my money to support their games almost entirely because of the middle finger given me by the devs with pathfinder.

Soon I’ll be gone, my criticism will go silent, and my money will no longer support the game you seem to like yet claim people like me drag it down with our entitlement attitude .

Have fun on your ground mounts for many months of every new expansion before you get flying just in time to lose it again for grounded zone(s) followed by the next expansion with another pathfinder to repeat the nonsense all over again.

Hey, if you read my other posts on the subject, you would see I want pathfinder to be a one and done, little if any timegating, part 2+ to unlock flight in landmasses introduced in patch content. This is why I think ones that just find pathfinder a “list of chores” entitled. I have my own issues with the set up, but for me pathfinder is just “playing the game”. However, if I do the work, and get the achievement, I should be able to fly at no later then the x.1 patch.

Tell me, would most people raise a fuss if the timegating was cut down/out? is the issue pathfinder in general or the timegating? Get this through your heads, one can like the base set up, but hate the additional junk. I like pathfinder but hate the ambiguous flipping of the switch for flight.

I think this is appropriate and support it.

Agreed, part one is more then fair for unlocking flight for release content.

[Antiman-thrall (Antiman)]

I also said I’m not surprised the developers don’t want to try and improve the system given the propensity of the pro-fliers to whine about the slightest restriction to their aerial water wings.

Biggest improvement right now? cut the time gate down/out then we actually might be able to see what the issue with Pathfinder really is, there might be those that still object to the “list of chores” but we also might be surprised at how many complaints fall silent if Pathfinder was “do x get flight” instead of “do x and wait to get flight”. Then we might actually get other improvements to the system that promote choice for players.

[anon99642319]

I never said I spoke for the people who like flying or that they were wrong for doing so, or that I wanted to force people to enjoy the game the way I do.

I am afraid you did.

Flying isn’t fun and doesn’t reward you with anything other than convenience.

You original premise pretty much screams it’s not fun, doesn’t reward anything.

I am NOT going to do this fight again, most of the friends I had in this game have ALL LEFT. My friend’s list never lights up anymore and the FEW who do remain, who were also friends of the same people and went a step more. Said A LOT have not lit up on BattleTag Friend/Real ID in a very LONG time.

I like flying I’m sorry. FOR ME it’s not a cheat, for others if you feel it is a cheat then don’t use it. Until your going to send me free tokens to play this game - don’t try to speak for me or dictate how I like to spend my time in it.

Better I’m still playing the game the way I enjoy to. Rather than the many other friends who have just walked away.

Many have pointed out in a whole host of other threads that a lot of other games don’t have flying in their games. That’s great, those games have EXACTLY what those against flying want.

So why are those that hate flying still playing this game and not the WHOLE host of free to play games that don’t have flying?

[Gunny-earthen-ring (Gunny)]

It’s clear on the face of it how those trash mobs are integral part of the risk/reward decision making of navigating through the world, but you’re willfully choosing to ignore it, or the rewards just aren’t what you think they should be.

The decision you’re talking about has such minimal impact on game play with such minimal reward that it’s almost inconsequential. It’s simply not a fun decision to make, so it feels more like an inconvenience than a true risk/reward. it’s perspective, but that’s the way I see it. The only time I ride through is when I’m in Prot spec, otherwise I go around. Why? The extra 2 seconds it takes to detour is more convenient. Not a hard choice to make, and certainly not one that contributes to my enjoyment of the game. YMMV.

Is flying travel the only solution to an unsatisfying ground travel experience?

I don’t know why people keep bringing up flight paths. I was never making the argument that they were fun.

Ground travel was fine during Vanilla. Why? Because it’s all we had. Then we got flight for years and enjoyed it. I never heard or read any outcry from the player base to do away with flight, that was strictly a developer call. They took it and we got nothing in return but smaller land masses, inconvenient travel methods, and a lot of BS about why it was removed.

Flight paths get brought up because they are the alternative to slogging across the ground the entire way across the map. As tiny as the land masses are now, it still sucks to travel on the ground everywhere. The terrain is bad, the trash mob population too dense, and the map resolution is so poor in some cases it’s hard to navigate.

I don’t mind not being able to fly until max level. I could even support Pathfinder Part 1… but the way they’ve handled it with BS artificial gating doesn’t work for me. It’s obvious they are trying to time gate and mask the size of the land masses. And/or are too lazy to design with flight in mind.

[Kakurine-area-52 (Kakurine)]

Immersion is entirely subjective. So the devs feeding us pr excuses about flying doesnt mean jack.

Blizzard gave us flying in bc we went multiple expacs with no issues. It was only in wod they tried to take flying away. But guess what its out of the bottle guys you can never take it away completely without your fans haning you for it.

The brutal truth is that the games world has never been the real meat of the game. The real meat is all instanced content.

The world is there to level us and to farm ore/herbs. Thats it.

By an mmos very design real immersion is impossible. Unlike a single player rpg our actions change nothing. The games story is set in stone.

We are not the actors, side characters, supporting cast, or even the nameless extras.

We we are the viewers watching thrall and friends. We can solo rp but its not cannon.

Pathfinder and timegates in general are only artificial content extenders and there to make blizzards time played metric look good.

People should just be able to pay a gold sink just like bc, wrath, mists, and cata and be able to fly at the new level cap.

Gates and walls exist not for players but stockholders.

[Dayon-wyrmrest-accord (Dayon)]

They took it and we got nothing in return but smaller land masses

As tiny as the land masses are now

And/or are too lazy to design with flight in mind.

It’s difficult for me to grant that you’re arguing in good faith when the claims you’re making are patently untrue. Go compare the sizes of the game world from each expansion and you’ll find they’re pretty consistent, with WoD and BfA consisting of pretty sizable leaps in land mass.

When you make claims you clearly haven’t actually looked into, why should I take what you say about the devs seriously?

I am afraid you did.

If I said anything to that extent, then it’s probably in this thread. Feel at liberty to actually go and find it.

You original premise pretty much screams it’s not fun, doesn’t reward anything.

What does flying do? What content does it unlock? What different ways of playing your character do you gain from it?

Flying is purely a convenience mechanic so I’m not going to consider it as meaningful or impactful as gear, talent selection, consumables, spec, or anything else where your choices actually matter and reward you in some way.

So why are those that hate flying still playing this game and not the WHOLE host of free to play games that don’t have flying?

Because I never said I didn’t like the idea of flight. What I said was this current version of it, as it exists in WoW, is shallow, trivializing, and needs to be improved.

[Hylianlich-boulderfist (Hylianlich)]

Better question why a part two to pathfinder? We already have to play both stories and get revered on one faction and no one liked doing pathfinder part two in Legion.

[Wallurian-wyrmrest-accord (Wallurian)]

There are other things besides just flying in the game.

I mean there’s the Tier Gear Problem with Azerite System, Allied Races being Rejected like High Elves, Undead Elves, and etc, Still no Trench Coats, Lack of New Dungeons, Lack of Newer Warfronts, and etc.

[Edgarthius-muradin]

This is a game, not combat. People play games for fun. A bit of annoyance for the sake of gameplay is not a bad thing, but over half of each x-pac now just feels excessive. Other than to stretch things out and make them take longer, why delay pathfinder part deux artificially for another patch?

[Andrilynn-bloodhoof (Andrilynn)]

This is a game, not combat. People play games for fun. A bit of annoyance for the sake of gameplay is not a bad thing, but over half of each x-pac now just feels excessive. Other than to stretch things out and make them take longer, why delay pathfinder part deux artificially for another patch?

Because they think prolonging chores is going to some how make them more fun to do. Pretty sure their whole point with prolonging flight is really just making people leave the game sooner. No one enjoys doing repeated chores. Why drag them out? Do they really think that’s going to keep people playing?

The game play should hold up on its own. If it’s enjoyable, I will play it. I don’t need a dumb achievement that makes me play. The fact that they have it, aside from the annoying flight delay, it also shows me the content they make isn’t good enough, and the only way people will do it is if it’s forced on them.

[anon68506884]

Disregard for customers? You presume to speak for all of us but I disagree with you totally. Don’t like the system? Unsub until it changes coming with your cash is the only thing that matters

[Mahatma-blackwater-raiders (Mahatma)]

How is flying any different? Cause you are in the sky? Thus you are not going to aggro the mobs at all?

To add to your post here:

I have agroed mobs while flying. I’ve even agroed the kobolds in Elwynn Forest as I flew past them (and this was before scaling was added to that part of the world, LOL). If the mobs on the ground have a ranged attack, they can even attack me while I am flying.

The anti flight arguments contradict each other in all kinds of ways:

1. Somehow, we fly way up so high that we are never in any danger, yet we can also instantly be on the ground, harvesting nodes.
2. In PvP, somehow, flight makes it easier for gankers to gank their victims, while at the same time, it makes it easier for the victims to escape gankers.
3. Flight whistles are somehow OK, even though they have the same restrictions that are applied to mounting, with the only difference being that the whistles have a 5 minute cool down and take you completely out of the location where you were as they instantly transport you elsewhere, while flying mounts have no cool down, but it’s possible for you to be dismounted before you can leave the area.

[Mahatma-blackwater-raiders (Mahatma)]

I still did Loremaster achievements, and tried to play and explore the game when I had flying already. Its just that it was my choice and when its a choice, its fun. When it’s forced, it kinda sucks the fun out of it.

I always did loremaster too, however, I would not have done the apexis dailies in Warlords without having to for Pathfinder. Nor would I have done the Facebook game mission tables in Legion. I would also have probably have waited until I could solo them before doing the dungeon and raid parts that were required for the Legion Pathfinder, as I hate how groups just rush through instances to the end and often skip a lot of what is in there.

[Wispsong-fizzcrank (Wispsong)]

The dailies in WoD are really bad. I hate fill-a-bar quests. The decision not to buy xpac and playtime was really easy and just encouraged by “no flying”. I liked Garrison but never really saw it as a must do every day during my month in WoD. It was a place of my own I could relax in and do what I would have done with flying in the world, gathering, pet battles and enjoy the view.

[Andrilynn-bloodhoof (Andrilynn)]

I would also have probably have waited until I could solo them before doing the dungeon and raid parts that were required for the Legion Pathfinder

That part is probably why I’ll never have flying for Legion. I left after a couple months cause I just wasnt having a lot of fun at max level. It was enjoyable at first, but after a while, it got repetitive and a lil boring. With flying in the past, these tasks were at least something i could deal with, but without it, I just cant be bothered. Its far too much of a chore without any proper rewards other then “flying!” Which I wasnt even going to get till almost the end of the expac anyway, so why bother?

I dont know if they changed the requirements now that its old content, but i would 99% try and finish up the stuff in legion if I could fly now. Not being able too and knowing the grind i still have to do to get it, in old content, just isn’t worth it to me.

[Mahatma-blackwater-raiders (Mahatma)]

I dont know if they changed the requirements now that its old content, but i would 99% try and finish up the stuff in legion if I could fly now. Not being able too and knowing the grind i still have to do to get it, in old content, just isn’t worth it to me.

My understanding is that they have removed the need to do the raid at least. In my opinion, it should never have been a part of the requirements to begin with.

[Gunny-earthen-ring (Gunny)]

It’s difficult for me to grant that you’re arguing in good faith when the claims you’re making are patently untrue. Go compare the sizes of the game world from each expansion and you’ll find they’re pretty consistent, with WoD and BfA consisting of pretty sizable leaps in land mass.

When you make claims you clearly haven’t actually looked into, why should I take what you say about the devs seriously?

Open up your big map and look at it. Look at the original maps and then step through each one as the expansions progress. The size of the continents has gotten consistently smaller. The two tiny islands we adventure on now are in no way, shape, or form sizable leaps in land mass. Don’t be so blind in your Blizzard support that you can’t see what’s obvious.

[Mahatma-blackwater-raiders (Mahatma)]

The dailies in WoD are really bad. I hate fill-a-bar quests.

I agree with you there. I detest the “fill a bar” dailies over any other type of quest… even over escorts. Warlords became a lot more enjoyable once I was able to fly.

I have a friend that I helped get Pathfinder in both Warlords and Legion. She has never been interested in grinding reputation, so that part was the biggest hurdle for her.

[Gunny-earthen-ring (Gunny)]

This is a game, not combat. People play games for fun. A bit of annoyance for the sake of gameplay is not a bad thing, but over half of each x-pac now just feels excessive. Other than to stretch things out and make them take longer, why delay pathfinder part deux artificially for another patch?

That’s a great question, but I think most of us already have the answer. The Devs want open world content consumed a little slower. The Devs don’t want to have to design content with flight in mind. The Devs didn’t like the outrage when they tried to remove flight completely so Pathfinder is a poke in the eye to the player base that didn’t blindly chew & swallow the sandwich they tried to serve up. The Devs also want to mask the fact that the land masses get smaller with each successive expansion release, probably a way for them to try to shave a little dev time.

[Lusankia-turalyon]

This isn’t true in the way that’s meaningful.

Meaningful for who? You are judging meaningful on past expansions. There is plenty in this expansion that would make things more fun with flying. It is great that some people will spend hours climbing to the top of a mountain just to do it…that is their fun and their choice. Why is me flying around any different. I don’t plan on flying to the highest mountain to take a screenshot to say I did it other than that. There are plenty of things that flyers find fun. I know several that like to RP in the air (I don’t get it, but that is their fun).