11/06/2018 06:56 AMPosted by ForumsThe majority are fine with it... Sorry 'bout it!
Where's your proof of this?
Where's your proof of this?
3 Likes
1st... There are plenty of "customers" who are just fine with waiting a few months for flight to unlock.
lol didn't realize 19 was "a few" (that's how long it took in Legion for those with short memories).
5 Likes
Yeah that's how the rest of us feel now. We've done it. You are always welcome not to fly even when it is implemented. That really seems like a "you" problem.
It's actually a Blizzard problem - if people don't engage in content, then the bean counters come in and say "hey, don't devote resources to things no one will do". Which is why you haven't gotten a true capital city since TBC - no one used them. Blizzard developers said "hey we want to spend a lot of time designing cool, interactive zones packed with interesting stuff!", and their bean counters came back and said "but everyone just rushes past that so they can fly and ignore everything - look at Townlong and Dread Wastes... like 15% of players have the achievement for doing those"... and the Blizzard devs came back and said, "hmm... what if there was a reason to complete everything, and we spent and ample amount of time with the zones being a core piece of the gameplay loop and not just flyover country? Can we make good zones then?"
And here we are - zones are packed with cool stuff now, instead of being designed like Icecrown: "LOL we'll make it so you just fly over the whole zone... we know you're going to do it anyway"
11/06/2018 07:13 AMPosted by Razorstorm1st... There are plenty of "customers" who are just fine with waiting a few months for flight to unlock.
lol didn't realize 19 was "a few" (that's how long it took in Legion for those with short memories).
Well... that's a lie. It was 7 months.
1 Like
11/05/2018 06:40 PMPosted by VadyaMy guess is that people will continue to make threads until they do away with the unnecessarily long, two-part Pathfinder
They won't. They made it clear back in WoD how they view flight. Accept it or move on until we get a new dev team and see if they view flight the same.
By logging in and doing the things necessary for PF all you're doing is telling them the design choice is fine as complaining here has done nothing to change what we currently have
11/05/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Vadya11/05/2018 06:25 PMPosted by VoidarcaneI enjoy not flying until the X.2 of the patch like in Legion, I get to explore the world it seems larger, and by the time X.2 roles out when I'm leveling more alts I can just fly by the boring stuff where I have already seen everything for the 10th+ time leveling characters to 120.
Fyi I already have 8 120's....
Yeah that's how the rest of us feel now. We've done it. You are always welcome not to fly even when it is implemented. That really seems like a "you" problem.11/05/2018 06:32 PMPosted by OriennHow many threads are we going to see a day about this topic? The horse is deader.
My guess is that people will continue to make threads until they do away with the unnecessarily long, two-part Pathfinder.
Seems a lot more like a "you" problem considering that Blizz went for the pathfinder route actually. ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
11/06/2018 07:41 AMPosted by AvaIt's actually a Blizzard problem - if people don't engage in content, then the bean counters come in and say "hey, don't devote resources to things no one will do". Which is why you haven't gotten a true capital city since TBC - no one used them. Blizzard developers said "hey we want to spend a lot of time designing cool, interactive zones packed with interesting stuff!", and their bean counters came back and said "but everyone just rushes past that so they can fly and ignore everything - look at Townlong and Dread Wastes... like 15% of players have the achievement for doing those"... and the Blizzard devs came back and said, "hmm... what if there was a reason to complete everything, and we spent and ample amount of time with the zones being a core piece of the gameplay loop and not just flyover country? Can we make good zones then?"
And here we are - zones are packed with cool stuff now, instead of being designed like Icecrown: "LOL we'll make it so you just fly over the whole zone... we know you're going to do it anyway"
So we're supposed to get an amusement park rather than an actualized open world. I guess that makes sense if you like open world content on rails. As for Wrath's zone design, I'd say the game was doing far better when the zones were designed in that manner with world building concepts in play.
1 Like
11/06/2018 07:57 AMPosted by Raspir11/05/2018 06:40 PMPosted by VadyaMy guess is that people will continue to make threads until they do away with the unnecessarily long, two-part Pathfinder
They won't. They made it clear back in WoD how they view flight. Accept it or move on until we get a new dev team and see if they view flight the same.
By logging in and doing the things necessary for PF all you're doing is telling them the design choice is fine as complaining here has done nothing to change what we currently have
That's a big catch 22 because if you do PF then they can claim "see everybody loves it this way" but if you don't do PF then they can say "see nobody likes flying let's take it out".
The players that like flying are screwed either way.
3 Likes
11/06/2018 08:03 AMPosted by TorghenSo we're supposed to get an amusement park rather than an actualized open world. I guess that makes sense if you like open world content on rails. As for Wrath's zone design, I'd say the game was doing far better when the zones were designed in that manner with world building concepts in play.
Drink!
Oh and regardless of the game "doing far better" from a purely unrelated metric, TBC was the last time questing wasn't "on rails" - they'd just hand you all the quests and let you go. Besides that, I'm sorry but I just can't get behind preferring the flyover sightseeing zones of Wrath, and especially Cata when they had to assume you're just going to skip everything. I mean... look at the massive different between Tundra, Scholazar, Fjord... and then Icecrown and Storm Peaks - they went from tightly designed zones with lots of different things to see to "Here's the pile of dead guys, here's the giant titan stuff... just fly over it all". Cata was worse - Hyjal was a mess with broken pathing and slapped together garbage because "lol just fly", Vashj'ir was more "lol just mount", and Uldum had you hopping in a vehicle every two seconds to blow up an area instead of feeling like you're actually spending time investing in the area. There are so many zones from back in the day where I can picture where each piece of the map is placed, what enemies and forts are in those locations, while literally all of Cata I have no idea what those zones have where.
MoP was the first instance of them actually turning things around and designing zones that encouraged boots on the ground, immersive gameplay of you feeling like you're actually living in that location for a time... and no one did them anyway.
11/06/2018 07:58 AMPosted by DundimborSeems a lot more like a "you" problem considering that Blizz went for the pathfinder route actually. ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
That's not how this works. I didn't make Pathfinder, I'm not responsible for it, and most importantly, since you only skimmed the first page of this stupid thread, I don't have a pathological hatred towards flying nor do I take sick pleasure in watching other people suffer because Blizzard makes stupid design mistakes.
Not really a "me" problem, is it.
1 Like
11/06/2018 08:26 AMPosted by RyukThat's a big catch 22 because if you do PF then they can claim "see everybody loves it this way" but if you don't do PF then they can say "see nobody likes flying let's take it out".
The players that like flying are screwed either way.
I had that issue while I was typing that out and you're right, it's a huge catch 22 and while I hate to push for players to unsub that might be the only thing that would garner enough attention, but just typing leave/unsub didn't seem productive
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People are still trying to use the bogus âimmersionâ argument like they think itâs a one-size-fits-all thing. Immersion is not everyone being forced to play the same way, it is being invested in the game which is different for everyone. If someoneâs immersion is being affected by other players having nice things thatâs a personal problem.
Anti-fliers say flying ruined the game yet flying was in full effect during WoWâs glory years of BC-MoP and no one except gankers on pvp servers complained about it. All of a sudden the new Director says it was a mistake and that makes it objective fact? Balogne. It was never about âimmersionâ or âchallengeâ. It has only ever been about padding those time-played metrics that they conveniently switched to when their sub count got so low it was too embarrassing to publicize. Why admit they done screwed up when they can just change their metric and make it appear to investors and shareholders that the game is still doing as well as ever? Along with everything that was wrong with WoD, itâs pretty interesting that the new more-or-less war on flying coincides with the release of what is inarguably the worst xpac in the gameâs history and came with a PR disaster rivaled only by the new Diablo Immortal.
Anti-fliers say flying ruined the game yet flying was in full effect during WoWâs glory years of BC-MoP and no one except gankers on pvp servers complained about it. All of a sudden the new Director says it was a mistake and that makes it objective fact? Balogne. It was never about âimmersionâ or âchallengeâ. It has only ever been about padding those time-played metrics that they conveniently switched to when their sub count got so low it was too embarrassing to publicize. Why admit they done screwed up when they can just change their metric and make it appear to investors and shareholders that the game is still doing as well as ever? Along with everything that was wrong with WoD, itâs pretty interesting that the new more-or-less war on flying coincides with the release of what is inarguably the worst xpac in the gameâs history and came with a PR disaster rivaled only by the new Diablo Immortal.
7 Likes
11/06/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Raspir11/06/2018 08:26 AMPosted by RyukThat's a big catch 22 because if you do PF then they can claim "see everybody loves it this way" but if you don't do PF then they can say "see nobody likes flying let's take it out".
The players that like flying are screwed either way.
I had that issue while I was typing that out and you're right, it's a huge catch 22 and while I hate to push for players to unsub that might be the only thing that would garner enough attention, but just typing leave/unsub didn't seem productive
Iâve long suspected that that would be Blizzâs way to eventually snuff out the players that enjoy the game more with flying. The way theyâve handled it since Pathfinder was put in makes it feel less like a legit compromise and more like something done begrudgingly because the people upstairs took notice. They drag it out as long as they possibly can by putting it behind playing the game essentially five times by grinding rep. On top of that you have to wait literally eight months for part 2 which is more of the same. By the time you finally unlock flying itâs practically useless except for playing alts and doing professions and pet battles. Players begrudgingly go through with the grind, so Blizz can say âlook! they enjoy playing from the ground!â, but eventually enough players get fed up with the management of the issue and leave, so Blizz can say âoh. guess you didnât really want to fly after all.â Once that scenario happens enough times they can just remove flying all together, which is what they wanted in the first place, and there wonât be enough players left to raise a big enough stink about it that the bean counters will notice. Either way, Blizz gets what it wants.
This is all conspiracy theory of course. It could just be âdonât attribute to malice what can be easily explained by stupidity.â Then again in this particular case it could be equal parts both.
3 Likes
11/06/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Raspir11/06/2018 08:26 AMPosted by RyukThat's a big catch 22 because if you do PF then they can claim "see everybody loves it this way" but if you don't do PF then they can say "see nobody likes flying let's take it out".
The players that like flying are screwed either way.
I had that issue while I was typing that out and you're right, it's a huge catch 22 and while I hate to push for players to unsub that might be the only thing that would garner enough attention, but just typing leave/unsub didn't seem productive
Yea I think you're exactly right. Nothing will change until the current dev team leaves or there's a massive unsub like when they announced no flying going forward. I've left no doubt that I'm 110% for flying at max level but if I unsub I'm one out of millions and it won't matter. I decided earlier in the expansion that I still have fun in old content where I can fly that I'm not going to sacrifice my fun to try and spite Blizzard.
Once I'm not having fun I'll definitely be gone.
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It really should be with 8.1. 4 months is fine without flying.
Then let us have 4 months with flying so that it isn't obnoxiously jarring when we unlock flying at the same time we get a new zone that will never have flying enabled, ala nazjatar.
^That's the real annoyance with gating flying for so artificially long.
Then let us have 4 months with flying so that it isn't obnoxiously jarring when we unlock flying at the same time we get a new zone that will never have flying enabled, ala nazjatar.
^That's the real annoyance with gating flying for so artificially long.
11/06/2018 09:05 AMPosted by PetalsIt really should be with 8.1. 4 months is fine without flying.
Then let us have 4 months with flying so that it isn't obnoxiously jarring when we unlock flying at the same time we get a new zone that will never have flying enabled, ala nazjatar.
^That's the real annoyance with gating flying for so artificially long.
Exactly. It didnât work on me with Argus and it wonât work on me in Nazâjatar. First time ever I didnât bother playing any alts in the xpacâs end zone.
3 Likes
11/06/2018 05:13 AMPosted by LeowulfIf somebody offered you guys the option to press 1 button and auto-complete every WQ, you would all rejoice and then complain about being bored.
That's the problem, flying isn't that magical button but it's close enough to become an issue.
No one enjoys doing World Quests. They are just in the way between you and the things you do enjoy.
It all boils down to the same thing: fake longevity. Making you take more time to do something for no other reason but to increase your playtime.
There's no reason to lock Allied Races behind an Exalted reputation when you get to know all about them upon completing their storyline. The mount is just a consolation prize.
There's no reason to lock flying behind several Revered reputations AND a large timegate. Completing the expansion's storyline should be enough because with that, you've already seen everything.
5 Likes
11/06/2018 07:00 AMPosted by Farajah11/05/2018 06:18 PMPosted by OhenzoBesides, by the the time flying is released the new content will likely be "no fly" anyways.
Such blatant disregard for customer satisfaction and experience would never 'fly' in
the real workplace world. And the hubris demonstrated by developers who seem to not care in the least what their community thinks astounds me.
Item 1 on page 1 of the design doc states thusly:
"Drag out as many aspects of the game for a long as possible"
Yup. In a nutshell thatâs how the time-played metric works.
1 Like
11/05/2018 06:32 PMPosted by OriennHow many threads are we going to see a day about this topic? The horse is deader.
As long as they hold my wings, the issue stays relevant.
4 Likes
11/06/2018 09:05 AMPosted by PetalsIt really should be with 8.1. 4 months is fine without flying.
Then let us have 4 months with flying so that it isn't obnoxiously jarring when we unlock flying at the same time we get a new zone that will never have flying enabled, ala nazjatar.
^That's the real annoyance with gating flying for so artificially long.
I skipped most of argus, and if nazjatar is another little arcade with a painted background and no flying, I guess I'll be skipping that too.
2 Likes
11/06/2018 09:05 AMPosted by PetalsIt really should be with 8.1. 4 months is fine without flying.
Then let us have 4 months with flying so that it isn't obnoxiously jarring when we unlock flying at the same time we get a new zone that will never have flying enabled, ala nazjatar.
^That's the real annoyance with gating flying for so artificially long.
This. I get wanting us to see it on the ground, and by this point in time we have. We've done the rep, we've done the WQ, maybe even leveled an alt or two, but stretching it out another 3-4 months is pointless
2 Likes