Flying basically non exsistant

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

How about a compromise? Release pathfinder 2 sooner and disable flight WORLD WIDE if a player has warmode on. This way we can all have what we want.

I don’t think this is actually what players in warmode want, but it would certainly do away with the “flying killed world PVP” argument.

[Mahewa-earthen-ring]

This was my experience with Pathfinder in WoD. I had quit in mid-late MoP, and came back a few months before Legion released. All I had to do to fly was finish the achieves. Which, tbh, the rep grinds seemed unnecessary. But the whole “do all the things and then wait many months until you’re sick to death of the content” model I experienced with Legion and now BfA is a whole ‘nother sack of fish.

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

But the whole “do all the things and then wait many months until you’re sick to death of the content” model I experienced with Legion and now BfA is a whole ‘nother sack of fish.

Yeah, the whole “beat the game, and then continue waiting for your reward” model of pathfinder kind of begs players to quit and come back later, when they finally get the reward for their work. And then the devs are surprised that the playerbase is “cyclical” now.

I feel like the game had more replay value when my alts weren’t just retreading ground my main already covered. I went from 85 to 90 in MoP with just the Jade Forest and Valley of Four Winds - I actually had to take a side trip to open the Vale so I could learn flying - which meant that there was a TON of new content for my alts when I took them to Pandaria. Kept the game fresh a lot longer than the current model.

[Piddy-uther (Piddy)]

Yeah, the whole “beat the game, and then continue waiting for your reward” model of pathfinder kind of begs players to quit and come back later, when they finally get the reward for their work. And then the devs are surprised that the playerbase is “cyclical” now.

The time gate serves two purposes. First, it lets Blizzard trickle out content and expand the story “flight free”. The gate is there not to delay flying, per se, but simply because “the story” is not done yet.

But, second, it’s also to lower the pressure on the meta achieve in the first place. People complain enough about not having flight, but even more so, they complain when OTHERS have flight, but they don’t. There’s implied pressure that they “must” “push” to get flight to keep up with friends/not get ganked/pick moar nodes/etc.

So, honestly, the concept of the story delay does make the PF achievement that much easier, because you DON’T have to “grind it out” and gogogo. You can “play the game”, at your pace, doing whatever it is you do and how you do it, and yet, still, get flight with everyone else, including the most hard core Gladiatored geared ganker on your server.

I feel like the game had more replay value when my alts weren’t just retreading ground my main already covered. I went from 85 to 90 in MoP with just the Jade Forest and Valley of Four Winds - I actually had to take a side trip to open the Vale so I could learn flying - which meant that there was a TON of new content for my alts when I took them to Pandaria. Kept the game fresh a lot longer than the current model.

Back in the day, getting reps on alts, or even mains, was part of “end game” content. Targeted reps, for specific things (toys, mounts, gear).

But the modern rep requirements for PF kind of crushes that concept. First, the rep is so easy to get (yea, it really is). But now, since “you have them all” anyway, they’re just not a fixture in WoW life much any more.

Similarly with the Loremaster. I won’t say I “never did Loremaster” before, but it was never a primary goal. It was more DING top level, wipe the quest log, on to end game doing dailies and what not since the actual day to day zone quests weren’t going to make me any better anyway. In the end, I’d usually bumble through and finish on one toon, but it was never a primary drive, just a background task.

And yea, it gave alts something to do.

Today, you almost need to get a main as far as you can before starting an alt and, ideally, wait until flight is out, just because you get to leverage all the stuff your main did on your alts anyway, why start over on the alt?

In some ways it’s certainly less satisfying.

[Padmelanna-misha]

But in the large, in practice, combined with the taxis and whistles and such, it’s not hugely different.

Of course you’re entitled to your opinion. I’m not disputing that in some places, some circumstances, there is little difference between flying and taking the taxi to get from point A to B. I am saying in some places, some circumstances, there is significant difference between the two methods of getting there. In fact, depending on where you want to go and from where you’re starting, it is faster to take the whistle and taxi than it is to fly yourself.

For example, in Val’Sharah, as often as not flying was a pain because of all the trees for even short hops, you may as well use the ground mount. By the time you flew up and over the canopy and then back down in to the destination, someone on the ground may well be there. You’re flying, but you’re also traveling farther.

You do know you can fly through the trees, except the large branches that will stop you. But for the most part, you can go straight through the trees without stopping and as the difference between ground mount speed being 100% movement and flying (depending on what level of flight you have) is between 180 and 310% movement speed, you’re still going to get there faster flying over the trees. Of course I’m not talking about a jump from 100 yards. That’s ridiculous for this discussion. We were talking about going from one zone to another, not a short hop.

Going from, for instance, some point between Moonclaw Vale and Smolderhide Thicket in Val’sharah to one of the quests around Cliff’s Edge in Highmountain. Especially if it’s the first time you’re going there on a particular character and don’t have the flight point closest to it. Maybe the closest flight point you have is Skyhorn, or even Thunder Totem. There is no way a person strictly on a ground mount can get to this point from that point in Val’sharah even slightly slower than a person on a flying mount.

In cases such as this, the time is significant. Not just in the distance you’d have to travel at 100% ground speed instead of the 180 to 310% ground speed flying provides, but in the times you’d be stopped fighting mobs. Not every mob would daze you or knock you off your mount forcing the fight, but some will. And that will take time away from getting there. Not to mention the terrain that you’d have to traverse. It is very mountainous (as the name implies, Highmountain) in that area making the distance even greater by ground mount.

No, this kind of thing doesn’t happen all the time, but it can happen and flying just makes it that much easier.

Most cases, I’m surmising, there isn’t a significant amount of time saved. But most cases, again surmising, there is some amount of time saved. And in a few cases, that time saved is significant when flying as opposed to ground mounts and taxi service.

[Zaranthosdk-icecrown (Zaranthosdk)]

Flying isn’t about skipping content, it’s about doing the content you want to do more easily.

I can skip content all day long as a tank on a ground mount. Stuff can’t dismount me and I can run an entire zone with elites chewing on my butt and it doesn’t matter. Distance will force aggro to drop and I’m in no danger. On a poor DPS that gets dazed and dismounted I just find high ground and jump and pop a glider or slow fall.

There are an abundance of ways to “skip content” and people use them all the time. The hearthstone will port you out of the world, the flight master whistle will whisk you away to safety. So by your logic the developers should remove all of that to save immersion and force engagement with the world they created.

For me flying is just a lot of fun. I like everything about it. I don’t even have to be doing content and I enjoy flying. Now if they really cared about fun like they claim they’d think about that.

[Catralyon-dathremar (Catralyon)]

And I can’t get the link to work either. But for the sake of argument I’ll take this one on faith, even though I have no idea who JK is.

Jeff Kaplan - lead designed for WoW at the time flying was introduced.
https: //wow. gamepedia. com/Jeffrey_Kaplan

I’ll try the last link a different way
https:// www.gamespot. com/ articles/world-of-warcraft-the-burning-crusade-qanda-questions-for-the-lead-designer/1100-6146909/

Delete the empty spaces to get it to work.

Added meaning it wasn’t part of the original design of the game.

So?

Not one expansion launched with flying in new content allowed from the get-go.

Cataclysm launched with flying from the get go.

I’m not sure what you’re asking here.

To advance the story you have to do the content. Having flying doesn’t change that.

Removal of flying has nothing to do with doing content - it has to do with slowing people down so as to drag out the content.

would argue that the sheer volume of posts complaining about having too much content and wishing for a way to bypass it counters that claim.

I haven’t seen any such posts.

Just look at all the people who don’t want to do warfronts, islands, WPvP, M+, rep grinds, WQs, and raid. The content is there. Players are simply turning their noses up at it.

Then it’s the wrong content. A game developer putting in the wrong content results in a failed game.

If they can avoid spending a whole five minutes doing a quest or dungeon or anything the right way they will.

The whole point of the MMO concept is that there is no right way.

I fully endorse Blizzard encouraging people to actually play the game in the world they created instead of cruising above it at 30,000 feet like they’re on a United flight.

Flight is part of the game and has been for over ten years. Blizzard has failed to make content relevant to that fact. Sticking with outmoded and outdated content of the Vanilla launch.

[Velara-gilneas (Velara)]

Goodness, yes. The Legion pre-patch invasions were the most fun I’d had in the game since’s Wrath expansion launch. It was an awesome sight to see 40+ players descending on their flying mounts to the invasion point and everyone running around in the fight.

THIS. SO THIS.

[Kithanne-feathermoon]

I seriously doubt, moreover, that the reason for the cannons was to keep you on the ground, because the most efficient way to do those quests was to fly, just flying in an evasive pattern to avoid the cannons.

The cannons were to make you work on your evasion skills, and to give you a sense of danger. There is an achievement for doing that quest within a certain amount of time which would be impossible to even do if you were not doing the quest on a flying mount.

[Kithanne-feathermoon]

That’s odd. Because I specifically remember flying all over the old world during BC which was two expansions prior to Cata. But go ahead. Tell me which zones in the old world didn’t allow flying until Cata. Duskwood? The Barrens? STV?

Flight paths don’t count.

Prior to Cataclysm, you could not fly in any zone that was located in either Kalimdor or Eastern Kingdoms. It stated specifically in the introductory cinematic that personal flight was being added to the old world zones.

[Okentotem-staghelm]

and kill their player base. Yes I love flying in game. You Blizzard don’t want me to enjoy the game, I can accept that while your xpac is new as I should walk the ground to see how it is. I’ve them all by walking. Now I will take my money and leave. soon.

[Anufenrir-moon-guard (Anufenrir)]

So no BFA flying until 9.0? Shame cause they clearly said 8.2 which is IN BfA.

[Razorstorm-hakkar (Razorstorm)]

This is likely going to be the first expansion where I skip flying. It’s kind of pointless when there is nothing worth doing in BFA.

Quoting for truth here. I currently can’t stand BfA content, and actively avoid it by either doing old-world stuff, running alts, or just play another game entirely (which is what I do most).

Never had a game actively push me away so hard before as WoW right now.

[Uglyetta-area-52]

hit level cap, providing we had the gold.
In WotLK, we could fly even BEFORE level cap, as certain zones were designed around being able to fly. Storm Peaks had rental mounts for those players without their own flying mount.
In Cata, we could just bloody fly.
In MoP, we could fly as soon as we hit level cap, provi

I believe that very thing. It’s as though the devs have taken to the mindset that making the game more tedious equals fun.

[Razorstorm-hakkar (Razorstorm)]

Jeff Kaplan - lead designed for WoW at the time flying was introduced.
https: //wow. gamepedia. com/Jeffrey_Kaplan

I’ll try the last link a different way
https:// www.gamespot. com/ articles/world-of-warcraft-the-burning-crusade-qanda-questions-for-the-lead-designer/1100-6146909/

WoW really needs to get back to their roots…

"I think anyone who has ridden a gryphon or wyvern in World of Warcraft has fantasized about being able to steer it in any direction they want. The freedom and beauty of flying over the expansion lands was really exhilarating. " - Jeff Kaplan

[Smashy-burning-legion]

When they finally remove flight, no one will notice.

Great,

There is a reason why people like Classic WoW and everyone is waiting for it…

[Elae-nagrand (Elae)]

99% of wow players agree with you sadly this is a deadhorse topic now

[Razorstorm-hakkar (Razorstorm)]

Bull. Azeroth flying was introduced during BC. I specifically remember that period of going back and forth between Outland and Ironforge and having to switch between flying and ground mounts. I also remember grinding for weeks to unlock it at level 70 for BC content.

I debunked you days ago. Why are you still trying to push this lie? Can you not use google? Here, let me help.

https:// en.wikipedia. org /wiki/World_of_Warcraft:_Cataclysm#Environmental_redesign

" One of the primary features of Cataclysm is the redesign of the continents of Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor introduced with the launch of World of Warcraft in 2004. While the initial game design did not allow for the use of flying mounts in ‘old-world’ zones, those zones have been completely redesigned with flight in mind for Cataclysm . Flight is still unavailable for Burning Crusade starting zones for the blood elves and the draenei."

[Velara-gilneas (Velara)]

So no BFA flying until 9.0? Shame cause they clearly said 8.2 which is IN BfA.

No. It allegedly will be unlocked in 8.2. But by then, who will care? The next patch will bring a no fly underwater zone and effectively, flight is dead for the current xpac.

…and the horse you rode in on, Blizzard.

[Anufenrir-moon-guard (Anufenrir)]

Flying will be avaliable Nazjatar