MoP is the expansion that begins the introduction of Flex Raiding into WoW. Normally, this feature was rolled out later in the expansion, during Siege of Ogrimmar. However, it is my hope that with the success of Flex Raiding in Retail and Season of Discovery, it will make an early come back.
Flex raiding makes sustaining a group of players so much more rewarding. Instead of trying to make people sit on a bench rotation where they are specifically not able to play the game, it allows you to oversubscribe to absorb absences whilst not punishing players if everybody would otherwise be able to make it.
Hopefully I’m not alone in this train of thought, and Blizzard plans on releasing Flex early!
Will they do it? If you had asked me a few weeks ago I would’ve given an emphatic no. But then they started actively balancing classes and making changes…
I still think they won’t, designing entirely new raid tiers that have never existed before is still probably well beyond the amount of work they’ll be willing to do, but it’s not as certain now
Your hope to slip Flex Raiding into the early MoP Classic schedule overlooks critical technical, design, and community realities.
1. Technical Architecture Mismatch
Flex Raiding in Retail depends on dynamic raid-size scaling, an LFG backend, and cross-realm permissions that Classic’s codebase lacks.
MoP Classic will reuse the original Flex code only in Siege of Orgrimmar, after all raid tiers and balance passes are complete rushing it risks bugs and balance chaos.
2. Overstated “Sustaining” Benefits
Bench rotations already existed via Open-Raid PUG tools and many groups found that empty-slot penalties ensured commitment more than “oversubscription.”
Flex’s catch-all oversubscribe model dilutes player accountability and makes loot splits more contentious when attendance and performance vary wildly.
3. Design & Balance Dependencies
Early-expansion gear bands, encounter tuning, and class balance aren’t stable until several raid tiers in. Flex needs consistent item level curves to avoid over- or under-gearing bosses.
Rolling out Flex prematurely would force Blizzard to support two very different progression models simultaneously, doubling QA and hotfix workloads. (Do you really trust the internes to be able to handle this?)
4. Community & Developer Constraints
Retail and Season of Discovery benefited from modern UI panels, automated group finders, and a vastly larger population. Classic’s smaller, manual-group culture leans on guild-run 10/25-man schedules, not on automated flexibility.
With limited dev resources focused on MoP content and bug fixes, early Flex implementation simply isn’t high-priority compared to core raid releases, world event tweaks, and balance patches. (The interns are over worked)
Bottom Line: Flex Raiding shines when its systems are mature late-expansion, post-Siege. Forcing it early in MoP Classic undermines technical stability, design balance, and the very community cohesion that makes Classic raiding rewarding. It’s a feature best left on its original timetable.
It makes putting a roster together so much easier for casual guilds. Some raiders simply can’t make it every week when real life exists.
No longer having to pick and choose between your friends because their class doesn’t bring the missing buff is just amazing. It always feels bad dumping people you like out of a roster.
Flex raiding is the best thing that ever happened for casual raiders, and for non hardcore raiding guilds.
Does it affect the hardcore raiding guilds meta? No, not really.
Here’s the reality when you join a raiding guild: raid times and days are locked in advance, and you’ve committed to 24 other players.
Once you sign up, WoW becomes your #1 priority. The only valid reasons to miss raids are:
You’re in a coma or facing an unexpected medical emergency.
You’ve permanently quit the game and will never log in again. (This only happens when you pass IRL)
In MoP, many classes cover multiple raid buffs Flex raiding isn’t solving a buff-gap problem that largely doesn’t exist.
In reality, Flex introduces its own headaches and doesn’t solve the core issues casual groups face.
1. Attendance ≠ Eliminated
Flex simply lets you over-subscribe, but you still need reliable sign-ups every week.
No-shows still force last-minute switches and scrambling to fill key roles just like “fixed-size” raids.
2. Loot Drama Intensifies
Weighted loot rolls based on attendance or performance create far more controversy than straight DKP or RPPM systems.
Casual players who miss a few pulls get massive roll penalties, turning Flex into a stealth bench system.
3. Weakened Team Cohesion
Rotating dozens of hands through a kill makes it impossible to build raid synergy or meaningful friendships.
Casual guilds rely on a core group; diluting that core with transient Flex sign-ups undercuts community bonds.
4. Class and Buff Management Remains Critical
Flex doesn’t auto-solve buff coverage. You still juggle healers, tanks, and utility specs every week.
Casual players still get benched if they lack the “ideal” spec on a given night.
5. False Sense of Accessibility
“Easier roster assembly” is an illusion when you factor in the chaotic invite lists, fluctuating internet connections, and varying player skill.
Casual raiders often prefer smaller, predictable groups where they can learn fights at their own pace, not rotating through 25+ people.
Bottom Line: Flex raiding trades fixed-group stability for chaotic oversubscriptions and heated loot disputes. It doesn’t meaningfully reduce scheduling pains or buff gaps and it sacrifices the tight-knit camaraderie that makes casual guilds stick together. For most non-hardcore groups, sticking to smaller, committed rosters remains the more rewarding path.
I’m not sure if you’re trolling or not. WoW is a video game. People have families, jobs and real life commitments that take priority over WoW.
Just because you have no career or familial responsibilities, that does not mean others do not.
You seem to be taking the point of view of a HARDCORE raiding guild, rather than a casual guild anyway. My post was very clearly geared towards the point of view of casual guilds.
You might be right in 25 man raids. But 10 man raids do still actually need to think carefully about which classes bring what.
10 man raids are more focused towards casual guilds anyway, because organising and coordinating for a 25 man raid is NOT easy for a non hardcore raiding guild.
Of course. Nobody has said otherwise. It just allows for the inclusion of people that may not be able to make every single raid without the roster falling apart.
It can happen. But a couple of no shows in a flex raid is nowhere near as detrimental than a couple of no shows in a 10 man static.
Nobody has said anything about rotating dozens of hands. You just created a strawman argument to defeat.
I can tell from this statement that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. I was in a casual raiding guild when flex raiding was introduced back in retail. It created MORE cohesion within the group as we were a bunch of friends playing together. Being able to increase our raid size to bring along our other friends that were able to make some raid nights was fantastic.
Another strawman argument you have created. Nobody has said that it auto-solves anything. It creates, wait for it, more FLEXIBILITY.
You quoted “easier roster assembly”. Nowhere did I state that. I think you are confusing yourself. I am talking about a static having the option to bring along additional guildmates on raid night.
Yet ANOTHER strawman argument. Nowhere have I talked about rotating through 25+ people.
If it doesn’t work for your static, there is this thing you can utilise: CHOICE. You are not forced to use the flex raiding system. It is not mandatory. If flex raids do not work for you, then great, don’t use it.
Tell me you have never been part of a casual raiding guild without telling me. You do NOT speak for us.
Sure, real-life commitments come first but that cuts both ways. When you sign up for a raid, you’ve made a commitment to 24 other people. Adulting means honoring those promises, not picking and choosing which ones you keep.
You can’t say “IRL comes first” and then bail on your guild’sraid night(s).
Skipping raid night(s) leaves your team scrambling to fill tanks, healers, or DPS at the last minute.
Respecting real-life obligations means giving notice, finding a replacement, or trading spots not ghosting your group.
If you value your word outside the game, treat your in-game promises with the same respect.
Funny assumption I don’t have a job or family here’s the reality:
I juggle work, family, and still clear my calendar for raid nights.
Signing up for a raid is just like booking a meeting or doctor’s appointment * you honor it or you let 24 people down.
Respecting your word matters whether you’re delivering a presentation or downing a boss in ICC.
Adulting means keeping all your commitments, in real life and in Azeroth.
Even casual guilds set raid days and expect attendance. Skipping a run without notice still impacts your teammates’ plans.
Casual raids usually meet one or two nights per week, fitting around jobs and families.
Signing up means you’ve agreed to that time slot, and your 9–24 fellow players rely on you.
Honoring a casual raid commitment is just as much “adulting” as showing up for work or a doctor’s appointment.
Whether you’re in a hardcore progression guild or a laid-back social group, respecting your word to real people is non-negotiable.
Class balance isn’t exclusive to small groups
You still need tanks, healers, DPS, and buff coverage in a 10-man static. Missing a single healer or key buff forces you to bench someone anyway exactly the same headache you’d have in a 25-man, just on a smaller scale.
MoP buffs blur the lines
Many MoP specs cover multiple raid buffs (e.g. Brewmaster Monks, Restoration Shamans). Both 10- and 25-man rosters lean on those multi-buff classes to ease composition, so it’s not a 10-man-only problem.
Flex raiding solves casual-guild woes at any size
Rather than downsizing, you can oversubscribe with 25-man: bring extra healers, tanks, or DPS to cover no-shows. That same principle works in a 10-man nothing magic about ten slots.
Fewer players ≠ zero coordination
Casual guilds who master a reliable 10-man static already run sign-ups, benches, reserve lists, and attendance checks. Scaling to 25 simply adds more bodies to buffer absences, not logistical doom.
Bottom line: if your group handles a 10-man roster fine, you can handle a 25-man roster just as easily. Class coordination and casual-guild comforts aren’t hostage to raid size they hinge on clear sign-ups, reserve systems, and the right mix of multi-buff specs.
If you want ‘inclusion,’ go play Retail. On Classic, raid sizes are fixed at 10 or 25 nothing to do with inclusivity; it’s simply how the game and its raids were designed.
Here’s why your retail-era flex anecdote doesn’t hold up for MoP Classic (or most casual guilds):
Timing mismatch • Flex wasn’t actually available until Siege of Orgrimmar even in Retail MoP, it dropped late-expansion. Classic follows the same roadmap, so you can’t “bring flex in early” to solve today’s roster pains.
False cohesion • Oversubscribing shifts focus from a dependable core to juggling bench lists. You might “bring extra friends,” but rotating through dozens of players keeps everyone at arm’s length real synergy comes from a stable 10- or 25-man static, not a revolving door.
Accountability evaporates • Casual guilds already manage sign-ups and reserves for 10-mans just fine. Flex simply hides no-shows behind automatic fills, which sounds nice until those bench-warmers start blaming you for loot splits or wipe recovery.
Loot & progression headaches • Flex loot rules (weighted by attendance/gear) introduce more drama than DKP or straight RPPM in a small group. Missing one pull in a 25-man flex can tank your roll weight longer than you’d ever get benched in a 10-man static.
Retail ≠ Classic culture • Retail casuals lean on modern UI tools and cross-realm LFG. Classic’s smaller, guild-centric scene thrives on committed cores and predictable nights flex just isn’t the community glue you remember, it’s a crutch for inconsistent attendance.
If your guild really values cohesion, reliable sign-ups and a tight static still beat “oversubscribe and pray” every raid night. Flex isn’t a community-builder it’s a band-aid for poor attendance, and that trade-off rarely feels worth it once the first loot dispute or no-show scramble hits.
Apart from the plethora of GPT responses, you guys are expecting them to implement a new system ahead of schedule when they couldn’t even be bothered to put in LFR?
LFR wasn’t included because of the extra work that it required. There was plenty of support for including it, especially in MoP with only a few gatekeepers dissenting, so the reasoning has to be down to bean counters. Asking them to put in flex mode requires time and effort that the bean counters won’t approve of.
Absolutely nowhere have I said people should be bailing on raid night. I am (and have always been) talking about being about to flex a raid size to be able to accomodate people that cannot make it every week. Not everyone is a hardcore Azeroth first player like yourself, nor should they be forced to play.
Once again, creating arguments yourself. Nowhere have I said that people should not keep commitments.
I’m going to go ahead and call complete and utter BS on that one. Your attitude stinks of someone that is in their mid 30s and still live in the family home. You can try to deny it, but anyone reading your post will likely come to a similar opinion.
Once again, your arguments are based on the notion of players dropping out and having to fill spots. I am not sure if you are misreading something, but my entire post was stating the benefits that flex raiding have on a casual guild running a 10 man static.
Well, that is just an awful opinion to have. Both in Azeroth and in real life. Things happen. Once of our guildmates’ children had an accident and had to be taken to hospital. He missed raid night. Were we even slightly mad? No, because we are adults and understand that some things take priority over everything else.
Are you even replying to me here? I have not mentioned class balance anywhere. Stop creating strawman arguments to defeat.
Well, no it doesn’t really. Not if the person not able to make it was someone not part of your static that only joins on occasional runs.
I am not sure what your point is here. Flex allows flexible raid sizes, which DOES take the pressure off a 10 man static.
Bringing classes that can flex into multiple roles is already pretty standard. Flex allows more flexibility in that regard, in that you can bring someone extra along for a run to cover a specific buff or role. I am not seeing from anything you have written how that is a negative thing.
You have very clearly never had to organise a 10 man static before. Spots can be very rigid in what they need to bring based on what other players in your static are playing.
Do you even understand what flex raiding is? You keep talking about it, but I am really starting to question your understanding on the topic when you write things like this.
Yes, that is how some guilds organise themselves.
Yes, they were designed that way until they found a BETTER option in flex raid sizes. It came at the back end of MoP, but it was still a part of MoP retail.
Classic does not have to follow the same roadmap. There are no rules that state they have to. I am not sure it will be possible for Blizzard to develop flex raiding for earlier tier raids, but that is not up to you to state.
No it doesn’t. Perhaps in a guild where you don’t particularly like eachother. But when you are quite literally talking about a group of friends that do not fit neatly into a 10 or 25 man raid size, your entire argument loses any meaning.
This was never my experience. We always had a good understanding that those flexing into the static would not be prioritised for certain bis loot over the core players that turn up every week. You are quite literally creating scenarios in your head that do not reflect reality.
No they don’t. Not if things are organised properly. Once again you are creating a worst case scenario in your head that does not reflect reality.
Many of these systems are already in place in MoP Classic. I have absolutely no idea what you are even trying to argue here, because it certainly is not against something I have said.
Speak for yourself, because we never had an attendance problem before or after flex raiding was introduced.
Classic’s raid culture is generally NOT guild centric. A large amount of players actually raid through GDKPs using purchased gold to buy items. You haven’t got the first clue what you are talking about.
Nobody has said “oversubscribe and pray”. Another strawman argument (there is a pattern here).
You have made only two valid arguments in your ramblings.
Adding in a flex raid system may be too much work for Blizzard and therefore may not be possible; and
You do not like flex raiding.
Nothing else you have said has any merit whatsoever. Practically all of your arguments are based on fictional strawman scenarios of a guild oversubscribing on players. You need to do better my friend.
Your claims Flex raiding solves casual guild woes and accommodates real-life commitments without “bailing” on raid nights. Here’s why each point collapses under scrutiny:
1. Real-Life ≠ Raid-Life Exemption
You cannot endorse IRL WoW and then deny condoning missed raids. If life truly “takes priority,” stepping out of raids is exactly what you’ve normalized.
Adult players do juggle work/family and still honor their raid sign-ups Skips without notice hurt 24 teammates, forcing last-minute replacements.
2. Flex Isn’t Just “Optional” Band-Aid
Classic’s dev roadmap and codebase won’t support early Flex: it hinges on late-expansion scaling logic, LFG hooks, and extra QA. Rushing it breaks the timeline and risks stability.
Even optional features carry community overhead new loot rules, roll-weight debates, and server-wide expectations.
3. No-Show Buffers Create New Headaches
Flex merely masks no-shows behind a bench list. It doesn’t remove the scramble for tanks, healers, and utility specs when absences spike.
Weighted loot rolls penalize casual bench-warmers far more harshly than a fixed 10-man DKP or RPPM system, breeding resentment.
4. Cohesion ≠ Oversubscription
Retail’s late-expansion Flex leans on modern UI, cross-realm LFG, and a huge population. Classic’s smaller, guild-centric scene thrives on stable statics, not revolving doors.
Real camaraderie forms when a committed core learns fights together—not when dozens of fill-ins rotate through every boss.
5. Buff Gaps Are Overstated
Many MoP specs already cover multiple buffs (Brewmaster, Resto Shamans). Both 10- and 25-man groups lean on these classes.
A reliable 10-man static with sign-ups, reserves, and clear buff-planning handles gaps without tossing dev resources at new raid-size code.
6. Strawman Accusations Don’t Refute Facts
You repeatedly accuses you of “creating arguments” and “strawmen,” yet:
You never said people should bail outright only that commitments must be respected.
You never argued Flex would auto-solve every issue only that it introduces trade-offs Classic isn’t ready for.
Calling every critique a strawman doesn’t address the real hurdles: technical debt, loot drama, and the erosion of core static stability.
Bottom Line: Flex raiding isn’t a free-pass for casual guilds; it’s a late-expansion feature with heavy technical, social, and balance costs. Classic communities succeed through predictable sign-ups, reserves, and a stable core not by oversubscribing and sweeping problems under a “flex” rug.
LFR in Retail undermined guild raiding, quieted community channels, and trivialized boss difficulty.
Blizzard saw those harmful side-effects firsthand and chose to leave LFR out of MoP Classic to preserve effort-based progression, not merely to cut corners.
Flex, however, keeps the core raid challenge intact—guilds still plan strategies and coordinate roles while letting them oversubscribe to absorb absences.
Bean Counters vs. Player Experience
Yes, every feature has a cost. But Blizzard’s omission of LFR was a player-driven decision, not a bean-counter fallback.
Flex’s lower technical overhead and positive impact on guild cohesion make it a justifiable addition, even on a tight Classic roadmap.
Skipping LFR in MoP Classic stemmed from lessons learned, not laziness.
To be fair, if you’re using chatGPT to write your posts for you, then neither are you. The robot is contributing something of minimal value (usually within a rounding error of 0), but the person who pasted it in isn’t.
Are you actually using ChatGPT to write these posts for you? Because what you just said there makes absolutely no sense. I gave you a perfectly good example of an acceptable reason for somebody to “step out” on raid night, and you chose to ignore it.
Sure, adult players juggle work/family responsibilities. I am one of them. But I understand that others may not be able to commit to strict raid schedules. I am really not sure what you are not understanding here. It is genuinely like talking to a basic level robot that just does not understand emotional familial ties and responsibilities.
You have absolutely NO CLUE what you are talking about. Please stop pretending you have the first idea about developing, because what you just wrote makes absolutely no sense from a dev standpoint.
I have not even made this argument, I have actually acknowledged that it would probably not be possible:
Again, makes absolutely no sense. Nothing you wrote there has any relevance to flex raiding.
I never said that people would not be learning fights together. You are again creating arguments that did not exist in my post.
I am not sure how you think 10 man raids are put together, but you appear to be insinuating that no thought is required. Good job making yourself once again look like you have no clue what you are talking about.
Okay, so you genuinely are actually using an AI to auto respond to me. That’s why nothing you have said makes any sense whatsoever.
Definitely AI. Such a shame that some people try to create arguments on topics despite not having even a basic understanding.
