Fixing One Aspect of Mythic+ : The Solution

[Elisande-earthfury]

nerf hp, damage, the amount of cc needed, and amount of mobs needed fixed

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Dracarian-medivh

I’m just trying to offer solutions, and if someone has a better one other than not pugging

Don’t try to replace players with AI in content designed around communication and shared responsibility. Because by doing so you remove the need for said communication or shared responsibility in order to succeed.

[Dracarian-medivh]

@Akston-area-52

Sometimes doing nothing is better than destroying everything.

Welp. You heard it here folks. Akston says there is nothing wrong with M+ and requires no action to be taken. You can all just grin and bear it the way it is. Do nothing… bummer. I was hoping you had some amazing input. Instead you have “turn the other cheek”.

[Boomdoggle-zuljin]

@Dracarian-medivh

I’m just trying to offer solutions, and if someone has a better one other than not pugging (which is the best possible solution) I am all ears. If you want Blizz to change it, give them something.

People don’t have to offer an alternate “solution” to recognize that a troll who decides to tank your dungeon and permanently remove the other players from the game will solve nothing.

[Myzrym-area-52]

@Akston-area-52

Sometimes doing nothing is better than destroying everything.

Think about it though.

If you destroy pugging entirely then you solve all of the problems in pugs.

[Akston-area-52]

@Dracarian-medivh

Akston says there is nothing wrong with M+ and requires no action to be taken

I didnt say that.

@Dracarian-medivh

Do nothing… bummer. I was hoping you had some amazing input. Instead you have “turn the other cheek”.

Do nothing is better than what you suggested.

That is what I said.

Please try to stick to the words being stated.

[Dracarian-medivh]

@Hpellipsis-whisperwind

Don’t try to replace players with AI in content designed around communication and shared responsibility.

Then don’t bring players who run the risk of messing it up for the rest of the group, and the key owner. Like I said, I stopped M+ years ago because of most of this garbage, and started this topic to see if people had actual soluteions.

[Myzrym-area-52]

@Dracarian-medivh

Then don’t bring players who run the risk of messing it up for the rest of the group, and the key owner.

That already solves all of the problems you want to make changes for though.

[Akston-area-52]

@Dracarian-medivh

Then don’t bring players who run the risk of messing it up for the rest of the group, and the key owner. Like I said, I stopped M+ years ago because of most of this garbage, and started this topic to see if people had actual soluteions

The issue is that solutions offered almost always make things worse.

Its very difficult to come up with a solution that wont make things worse, that wont have collateral damage.

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Dracarian-medivh

Then don’t bring players who run the risk of messing it up for the rest of the group, and the key owner.

So the key owner should, as a reward for being deserted by his team, be awarded with a freely timed key carried by robots?

And do 2 pieces of loot still drop at the end for this single person?

[Dracarian-medivh]

@Myzrym-area-52

That already solves all of the problems you want to make changes for though.

Then there you have it. Anytime some M+ rolls in here with a complaint, I will tell them “Next time, only bring friends.” and leave it at that. I knew trying to help out and offer up possible solutions was gonna blow up spectacularly. People don’t want solutions, they apparently just want to complain until Blizz does something and then complain about how they did it.

[Akston-area-52]

@Dracarian-medivh

I knew trying to help out and offer up possible solutions was gonna blow up spectacularly. People don’t want solutions, they apparently just want to complain until Blizz does something and then complain about how they did it.

Once again.

Your solutions would make things worse. Its ok to want solutions. But have the ability to realize their short comings.

[Dracarian-medivh]

@Hpellipsis-whisperwind

So the key owner should, as a reward for being deserted by his team, be awarded with a freely timed key carried by robots?

And do 2 pieces of loot still drop at the end for this single person?

You are right. This was a bad option. I am done trying to salvage it. Let’s move on.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Dracarian-medivh

Mythic + requires a very specific type of player, with specific knowledge and skills. Since I don’t do M+, I figure I have my face just far enough away to see one of the main issues and offer a solution.

This honestly just reads as “I have no stake in this, no knowledge of it, and my opinion is largely influenced by others I agree with.”

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

If you have no experience of M+, how would you be able to determine whether the data you find is even remotely relevant or not…? You say this…

@Dracarian-medivh

Lately, there have been constant complaints on this forum about broken keys, people bailing, etc. […]

The Problem
Keys are being broken, people are leaving, and/or people do not understand the mechanics in the dungeon. People either do not care, are in a rush, or are simply trying to be carried.

… without the necessary context that overwhelmingly the complaints are coming from people who don’t do M+, trolls who want to eliminate M+, and folks who are upset that a key got bricked because a person bailed as they determined the key wasn’t worth their time.

When the overwhelming majority of threads stating a complaint about M+ falls into one of those categories (or multiple), how on earth are you going to, with no experience, determine what data is relevant and what isn’t…? Not to mention you also say this…

@Dracarian-medivh

I mean, if it were up to me, I would dump M+ as a gearing track system and endgame pillar, return it to a challenge mode how it was originally built, and return Dungeons and Raids to Normal and Heroic only with Wrath style gearing.

… stating that your biases are so far out that nothing of what you say as a “solution” can even be assumed to be done in good faith. So with no experience, no interest, no data, no critical thinking skills that are applicable for the topic, and with a heavy bias against the activity itself - why should anyone consider what you have to say on the topic?

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Dracarian-medivh

People don’t want solutions

“replace players with AI” and remove the difficulty from the content in the process by ensuring those AI are tuned / capable of succeeding in timing the key is not a solution.

[Amagicpotato-moon-guard]

OP is getting way too defensive and upset over his ideas being rejected.

Hell, I just want lengthier and more extensive penalties you can’t make a trash person do the good person thing, so just punish them HARSHLY for being trash people.

[Akston-area-52]

@Dracarian-medivh

You are right. This was a bad option. I am done trying to salvage it. Let’s move on.

So which options are left to salvage?

“know the fights”. Which is what everyone suggests already, and often the people suggesting it get blasted for being “elitist”

and

“you are trapped in the dungeon, not allowed to leave”

[Kalcifur-eldrethalas (Kalcifur)]

It’s almost sunday, just missed it by a little bit. Maybe an ai can help with the timing for next time lol.

[Dracarian-medivh]

@Shadybolt-thrall

why should anyone consider what you have to say on the topic?

Turns out they shouldn’t. I gave up M+ in SL. Folks are free to just deal with it as it stands.

[Boomdoggle-zuljin]

“You can check out anytime you like,
But you can never leave.”