FL will have half as many bosses and even a shorter tier.
Its already painful gearing 10M. There’s several BIS items we haven’t seen a single drop of (lol we still need 4 Sinestra cloth helms…)
10M will be incredibly painful if drops aren’t increased given half the loot per week vs now. It already is pretty close to troll.
Please fix your game.
Good thing you have until October to get those 4 helms then.
How about you crunch the numbers on that before posting?
Don’t need to, Blizzard already did.
lol my hunter is nearly as geared as my main from a much less progressed 10m that I have only gone to half the time
Have you considered doing 25 mans? There’s a slight loot incentive for doing so.
You don’t “need” them. You want them. In a perfect world yes everyone would have bis characters. Unfortunately that won’t happen and never will happen for an entire raid. Retail is the same way and always has been.
Why do 25m people gatekeep 10man players so hard? They act as if 10man is some boogeyman… some people just want to raid 10man with their friends. It’s a 13 year game, what difference does it make to you if they are slightly more geared than how they currently are? 99% of the time you will never interact with these 10man players so why should it hurt you to raise their quality of life in the game? It’s wild how much classic players hate their own game
I think you hit reply to me on accident.
Nothing is stopping you from raiding 10m with your friends. And what difference does it make if you are slightly less geared doing that?
Main issue comes down to that its not slightly less geared. There are many items you simply can’t use in 10m because you can’t cover every item that drops in 10m, in addition to the fact that you get less items meaning you’re much more reliant to RNG. Tier is the worst part here.
Have been doing 25m and 10m with a mage and a (balance) druid. The mage is missing 2 pieces, my druid got 2 items. Both have been doing heroic clear since week 2.
If they add a 50% chance to get a third item 10m and 25m it would at least be somewhat balanced in terms of actual drops. 25m has still an advantage as normally you can use every single piece.
Should everyone who raids get full BiS before the phase is finished?
I don’t think everyone would answer this the same, and I don’t think everyone would agree with their own answers after understanding the implications.
In any case though, just remove 10 man raids and this problem of noisy complainers goes away.
Blizzard kind of did, and didn’t? on retail anyway.
That’s a fair question, but one with an equally fair answer, I think. By my estimation, it’s always a good idea to encourage players to do the best content in the game, and 25-player raids are just that.
Some might argue that having fewer total drops could mean specific desired items might not get seen as often. While this might be a concern for some, I believe the experience and rewards of 25-player raids far outweigh these potential drawbacks. With a fairly static and reliable group, there’s also less competition for those items.
The final and thematically similar point I would make is that even if 10-man raids were to reward less gear, I would still be okay with that. Not only because there is more difficulty in getting 25 players together and getting them to show up, but again, I see it as an incentive to move into superior content—25-player raids. This is a massively multiplayer game after all, and there is nothing massive about 10 player content. Encouraging players to participate in these larger, more challenging raids enhances the overall gaming experience and fosters a stronger sense of community and achievement.
Edited to solidly my argument around what this game is (or was) intended to be.
I’m not here to debate people that failed highschool level statistics or make some silly claim “25m is better” (I disagree. Next?)
25 mans are gearing their second alts right now lol. 10 mans will require amazing RNG to BIS out their mains. Its completely unfair and makes no sense for classic content. Let us BIS out and enjoy TWW until FL…
My unholy DK never saw Winding Sheet drop until the last 2 weeks of ICC.
The guild still achieved the goals we saught out to complete despite not having it.
they added 25mans for this…
This is always such a dumb discussion. Each raid size has its benefits and drawbacks.
It is just that the benefits of 10m are waved away as “I just wanna play with my small group of friends”.
While the benefits are 25m are seen as something 10m is being denied, and if a 25m raiders wants to keep the benefits that come with raiding as a 25m they are somehow “gatekeeping” what a joke.
Simply put as a 10m you have far less overhead when it comes to recruiting, maintaining, and organizing your run. You have a lot less potential of impact when it comes to real-life interfering with your raids. For that benefit, you get less tier (Yes tier, not other drops, you get the same amount of other drops per player), and you don’t get as many rolls to see a specific item drop. That is the drawback you have chosen when choosing to run a 10m instead of a 25m.
The benefit to to 25m man for dealing with all that non-raid stuff is that they get one additional piece of tier and have more rolls to see a specific item drop. The amount of non-tier gear is the same as 10m per player. (That hasn’t stopped 3 duct tape from dropping every week)
Both have 1 drop per 5 players. The difference in loot is that while 10m only gets 1 token per 10 players. 25m gets 3 tokens per 25 players. The Token’s however aren’t what is being complained about it.
If you are going to take away the benefits that 25m gives for the additional work on leadership’s end. What are you going to give 25m to replace that? Even more loot?
All that would do is push this discussion down the road and it would then become how it is unfair that 10m can have assured BiS and the 25m are gatekeeping BiS because they get more loot.
Ultimately. There needs to be a benefit for running 25m over 10m. Just like there is a benefit for running 10m over 25m. Pick your poison.
Granted we can solve this by Blizzard saying screw it everything is only one size now and then you can go find something else to complain about.
Hunter gear seems to drop the most in this tier. In my main 10m the most geared person is our Hunter and my alt Hunter is already more geared than my main.
10 and 25m are not statistically equal at all. They are volumetrically equal for the size of the group. This is a very different reality than what you are trying to describe.
Storms wake has a drop rate equivalent to war glaives on 25m. Let that sink in… and again… ontop of this!! It being the correct stat / affix for the person in the raid that needs it!
Its actually unbelieveable how bad this phase is and especially for 10m.
Basically to old mates point who you replied to. You have a far greater chance of the loot being usable in 25 because there is simply a greater chance of recieving usable loot in 25m -because there is just more of it and a far larger chance that you have a raider that requires that type of armour (i.e. leather int, leather agi etc). This surely is a simple fact to understand.
Its sad blizzard kept to the fantasy of larger raids, i think this was a real lost opportunity looking at the current state of 20m mythic raiding in retail being tightly tuned to larger numbers of raid cooldowns and raid buffs. But in saying this… no wonder why 10m raiding did not take off though (pretty hard to guess why lol). Maybe would have turned out differentlt if players were simply rewarded.