Interesting take. I agree with some of it. But i do not agree with portions of the maintenance and overhead for the following reason. [And (probably) this stance you have shows that you dont lead or ran 10m as a main consistent raid for cata].
The reason:
In 25m it is a much higher probability that you have dps players geared fully for offspec to replace other raid members roles. You do not have this same luxury in 10m. This means chances are you will lose the better dps to become now a sub-par healer or tank slot from the main group who know the fights and are competent… more often leading to pugging a dps that will not offer as much to; your raid comp/raid buffs to the group and overall lower dps output because they are often not as good as your main raiders and now relied on for 1/6 of your groups dps which is a lot. More often then not the roster boss in these cases will lead to a cancelled raid, especially if its your main tanks or healers that cannot make the raid.
If my main tank quits the team due to IRL its basically impossible to replace him. There arent enough weeks left in the teir to gear a new tank up. 25M you can BIS out a tank in 3 weeks. Actually you’re backup tank is already going to be one of 3 DPS on your roster with an already completed offset lol. My team will be lucky to finish all our main sets tier by the end…
Theres no point in gate keeping gear in classic. Phase 2 shoulda added a currency to buy heroic raid items, dropped from heroic bosses. Theres no meaningful competiton going on right now in T11 lol.
Since this thread is still going im gonna point out your problem. Your comp is bad for loot optimization. You have 4 cloth users. Your comp lacks variety.
Whiles it not realistic to one of every class with the optimal offspecs for all possible loot drops if your stacking too many armor types you’re going to struggle with loot.
This is a problem with 25 mans as well. Its not unique to 10 man.
Plate has 3 varieties. Mail and leather have 2. Cloth has 1.5.
While some cloth has spirit and some has hit theres a lot of overlap and chase items all 3 cloth wearers want.
Having 4 cloth wearers in your 10 man means too much competition for chase cloth drops and too little competition for non-cloth. The 6 others are getting their items faster, and thus the duplicate drops are going to waste.
You might want to consider seeing if one of your four cloth users would like to change classes.
I’m involved with the leadership of my guild. We had 3 10m teams and 1 25m team. The 25m team has been hit the roster boss. We have had to bring people in due to roster boss issues despite 29 rostered players.
Roster Boss is something 10 and 25m have to deal with. When it hits 25m it is a lot harder to attempt to swap around and fill roles for more than just a single player. In either case cancelling a raid that week is on you as leadership. You could fill, you just can’t be asked to be bothered to do so. Even if it is your main tanks, raid lead, and healers that are out like it was for my group this week.
And I can stop reading here. If you are going to genuinely engage with the topic you might as well not even bother commenting.
You’re saying your 25m, which probably has a roster of 28-30, has less flexibility than a 10M with a roster of 12. If you recruited well you’d have multiple people that can flex tank/healers with full gear sets. You can be short an entire person in 25 man and barely notice you’re 24-manning the content, lol.
Your point here makes absolutely no sense. The only advantage of 10M is the initial recruiting effort, getting to 10 from zero is a lot easier than getting to 25. New guilds aside there is nothing - but even then its not even raw number since there’s only a few viable 10M comps to cover all buffs, so you need specific specs, while 25M can recruit duplicates no problem, and thus has a way larger pool to pull from.
It’s the typical internet status quo defending (that’s particularly prominent on WoW forums).
Your points are all valid, though. All of these 25 man raiders are so inclined to ensure that 10 man is a more gruelling experience.
Yet some people just want to raid 10 man as it’s easier to organize and get together with closer friends.
The gear progression in 10 man right now is really bad. The lower amount of drops means a lower chance you will see a chase piece. Accordingly, your group can go weeks without any substantial upgrades despite clearing bosses on “farm”.
If 25 man raiders can’t appreciate their major advantage in being able to gear faster due to the variety of drops, just give them whatever they want—a title, a mount, a giant halo to show how much better they are—but make changes to improve the 10 man loot progression so it isn’t such a slog for people that want to do 10 man content and feel natural rather than glacial character power progression.
It isn’t because 25m gets 3 tier tokens and 10m gets 1.
So in FL 5/7 bosses will drop 8 items for 25m and 3 for 10M
Hence a massive discrepancy.
Even with the same ratio the more important metric is “weeks until I see one of” is most important. My team is a bunch of people in mostly BIS besides the 1 or 2 items each that just never drop lol.
pray to the all seeing wow gods and hope to get ur bis