Drop dead serious. Would trade bubble for an actual fun Ret spec and a much more functional Holy spec ANY DAY
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Sorry for you, Or happy for you. too long didnt read i cant read im in a mud hut
Major L Take about the pre raid BiS and BiS item farm. The fact that Gnomer loot can still be relevant and not have to deal with discarding every gear piece every tier is what makes character progression meaningful and one of the biggest problems Retail has with gearing.
You are basically asking for Retail progression and in Vanilla WoW where loot is diversive and has more value and longetivity is such an important aspect of Vanilla raiding.
So yeah sorry but this is such a bad take.
Also Im a ret pally and love the class to death but you do realize that paladins in general have so much utility in groups right? Im getting sick and tired of people whining about not doing top damage. I hate how thats just the dominant language in MMOs lately. Not saying that the class is perfect but asking to buff our damage is not the answer.
being relevant is fine, being BiS on top of another BiS that only comes from long hours of farming is not fine. You should try a little harder to understand the point of the post. I did not ask for an outright damage buff either.
In the current situation we are looking at being forced to use crowd pummeler for the rest of the game. that’s NOT ok.
This stupid i hope you know they wont fix your ret class and getting piss off about when Other players.have a Opinion about your class is so stupid you Alliance.are so annoying
Thank you for your opinion 
Been playing ret paladin all of sod and played prot as soon as it became viable in classic, ie tbc pre patch.
Ret paladins are pretty bad, but theyre actually the best paladin spec right now. Normally i wouldnt care, but christ man shamans are the best melee and ranged and tank spec and really good healers. Im fine with being middle of the pack as long as i can get raid spots but shamans should at least be balanced with paladins in mind. Instead of having everything we have PLUS MORE.
The real problem is hpals have been completely and totally unplayable since day 1 and prot paladins have just gotten worse over time. Yeah hpals will never go oom, but no one cares cuz they dont do any healing. They can literally only heal 2 ppl at once max, and yet do less healing on a single target of those heals than a priest or druid or shaman do to a single target of one of their AOE heals. And half of the rune slots DONT EVEN HAVE HEALING RUNES. theyve gotten no new healing abilities, just a better power word shield that can only be used on a single person and they can heal two people now. Every single other healing class has aoe heals, some multiple, plus their heals are so much more powerful.
Meanwhile prot can get crit, and has no mitigation cds. And for the last two phases didnt even wear a shield.
And ret and prot are so bad that they have to steal each others things. Rets are mostly going sword and board now cuz hammer of righteousness is op plus the faster your weapon the more melees and seal of martyrdom hits you do which means more crits which means more art of war procs. So no ones actually using the shockadin build blizzard tried to make but dps paladins are still casters, and no ones really using a big hard hitting sword or hammer that im pretty sure every ret actually wants to be using.
Please dont make ret use sword and board, if you want a shockadin build make it actually use holy shock and use sp gear, make prot pallies actually use shields, please at least make a spec worth bringing to a raid, which hpal hasnt been since day 1, and for the love of god dont make shamans completely broken in all 3 roles with much higher dps/heals/threat/mitigation plus more utility while paladins suck at everything. Shouldnt be too much to ask.
PS: for the love of god, stop making anti melee raids. I know yall didn’t like raids with 30/40 warriors and rogues in vanilla, but making raids 7/10 or 15/20 ranged isnt good either, and very obviously more people want to play melee classes anyways
To start this off, I could care less about dps, as long as I’m competitive middle of the pack. What I do care about is being able to feel like I’m progressing with my character. Having your spec viable only when you have a weapon only available through rng is horrible game design. I did everything right and raided every lockout with a good guild only to see acp drop twice and lose both times. I got geared pretty early on and my character progression stalled for the entirety of phase 2. I had no incentive to keep playing because my progression was locked behind chance, but I stuck it out in hopes that phase 3 would be better. Having acp still be our bis in phase 3 has been so disheartening.
I don’t want buffs, but I want my spec to be fun and the current rotation is broken for pve. Exorcism is so strong that you have to delay using Crusader strike and I have found myself being forced to completely skip pressing the button because exorcism keeps resetting from art of war. Not being able to press my buttons is bad game design. I understand balancing is tricky, and I think ret is very strong in pvp. I’m not smart enough to figure out the solution, but having a broken rotation and being viable only when you have an item from rng is not fun.
I was in raid last night and man it was so enjoyable to press my mandatory 23 globals before every boss to bless the raid.
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As a ranged hunter who feels as though my identity has been stolen from me and taken over by melee players, even I support this.
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- Make DS holy damage and scale with 50-60% Spell power and like 30% AP. same with CS
- reduce mana cost of DS/seals/judgement/HoR/HW about 80%
- rework AoW procs to just be a % chance on hit based on weapon speed (less for faster weapons, higher for slower) so we dont have some dumb crit fish meta.
- Increase damage from SoR SoC SoM. increase mana regen from SoM greatly.
I agree with the idea that rets are not in an ideal spot, but I think you would be better served with a more concise and well thought out post that provides feedback the devs can use as opposed to quippy and snarky attacks against the design and suggestions. It’s pretty well established that devs do not like or really follow suggestions but respond much better to direct feedback.
So here is mine:
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Paladins as a class, not just Ret Paladins, feel like they are still failing at the primary functional design for class fantasy and while their performance is more cohesive than auto attacking from era, it’s just not a fulfilling position to be in.
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None of the paladin specs are providing unique bonuses to the raid anymore, and so whatever paladin role is the best for the raid feels like the option, rather than each of the specs being able to bring something for their style of paladin play. The unique functions they do bring are either not worth the investment, or don’t provide this benefit. Blessing of Sanc is not worth using in groups even with the rune, sanc aura and imp seal of crusader have no value to the raid, only to the paladin when the paladins are all about buffing others. And holy doesn’t really gain anything other than being a solid tank healer.
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It would be really nice to see these specs each get some individual party and raid utilities. Things to buff their allies unique to their role and make there be a reason to have a variety to the paladin archtype depending on group composition. If the class fantasy is a beefy melee who provides inspiration and bonuses to his allies, we’re doing a terrible job of fulfilling on that.
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Bubble feels like it is a hindrance to future design space. With the ability to go immune for 12 seconds, it would be hard to give the paladin too many powerful tools in either PVP or PVE that would make this too strong. If this is a problem, there probably needs to be a solution to lessen the impact in some way without changing it completely.
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Paladin fight control and mobility is atrocious. Our burst is strong but relies entirely on other classes and rng. We struggle to get into fights in PVP and we struggle to stay in those fights. It would be nice to give the paladins some unique or lightweight engagement tools that allow them to do melee things with the melee crowd rather than being a liability when trying to engage.
What class fantasy ? a cringe lord entitled crybaby ? they are completely living up to the fantasy bud
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lol it’s kinda funny how they turned ret into an exorcism spammer 
like, way to miss the point
8 second immune to all damage… making another person immune to all physical damage… two things NO HORDE CLASS HAS, in the current burst META where 8 seconds is a literal eternity… You continue to ignore this. Fact, it gives alliance a constant I win button, repeatable.
No ret paladin is for noobs. People who need the kind of crutches paladins have should also have to feel like they’re walking with crutches.
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says the shaman as he rolls his face across the keyboard and still wins at everything lol
i just got hit by a 2.2k starsurge from a boomkin and i could only run at them. get real clown
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Yeah ret seems too strong in PvP for this though. On the reg I get two shot in the four second paladin stun.
If they buff damage it needs to be in a very small way that doesn’t lead to more burst. Not like it that behind on the pve meters.
In terms of changing certain buffs to me be more like totems. I agree but they need to be on even shorter timers than totems. Which only last 45 seconds to 2 min max, pull aggro and we have to move them with us.
You are right, boomkin damage is way too high. I won’t argue with you there.
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