Okay, let’s use your own line of logic against you:
Where in that post did Aggrend say, “I am asking for rets to stick around in P3”?
“That said, we are working on our first truly beeft(sic) set of Phase 3 changes which we hope to have out soon. Will it fix everything every one of you wants to Ret? No. But there’s some stuff in there I do think you’ll like that should help step in the right direction.”
So it’s not there?
Twice -
Once at the top:
“Got some stuff coming that should make you guys happy though.”
And then around the midsection:
“That said, we are working on our first truly beeft(sic) set of Phase 3 changes which we hope to have out soon. Will it fix everything every one of you wants to Ret? No. But there’s some stuff in there I do think you’ll like that should help step in the right direction.”
Dont know that much about Hunter, but I would not complain as much if Exorcist would bring an amount of benefits to Paladin equivalent to Lion.
While Lion is strong and provides a group-wide buff, Exorcist as u said only benefits Paladin and its effect is so basic and fundamental to Paladin’s rotation that it does not make sense to make it an separate rune.
It should really be combined with Art of War.
I think the difference there is, while you could probably get a personal dps increase from picking something other than Lion, the Exorcist rune is a cornerstone of Ret and Prot gameplay right now. It’s mainly about getting as many Art of War procs as possible to spam as many Exorcisms as possible. Without it, Ret would be dead in the water.
So I dont see why it should be a freebee and not a rune slot, melee hunter needs 2 runes as mandatory to be playable, 4 for full potential.
Under the same logic it makes sense to have Exorcism as mandatory.
The general request is to have Exorcism merged with Art of War, because they’re entirely dependent on each other.
If you think Hunter has a similar situation with some of it’s runes, then you can criticize that and request it be changed. Poo-pooing Paladins asking for this isn’t doing anything for anyone.
It is not about poo-pooing paladins asking for something, it is about poo-pooing paladins asking for everything and more, when you are already favored by devs (so are shamans).
Be grateful and accept that you cannot have everything when your tool kit and options are already insane.
Well, now you’re just being ridiculous.
Am I though?
Or are those constant requests to always have more is? Aggrend takes on his time to personally pat you on reddit. Did he do that for any other class? I don’t think so…
Yes, you are though.
The entitlement has no bound…
You’re not. And I don’t think repetition makes a statement less useful or helpful, especially when you’re talking about things that are potential synergies.
This is also fair game and a pain point for a lot of classes. Example would be Druid with Lacerate and Mangle in the same slot. I believe the intent is to add more slots to the same piece, but that took a while to fix.
Point is that’s totally reasonable to point out, not to say “other folks had it bad, you get it bad too.”
Are prot paladins able to hold threat without Exorcist?
I think something close to an improved sanctuary or something that had another “end” to it like Alpha or Vigilance does would be nice. Most of the target-others threat modifying abilities have a bonus for caster and target.
Considering what’s just happened with warrior, the double-scaling (4x threat) and gladiator stance make prot worth speccing into now. Damage is… …ok. I didn’t feel like I was sucking wind, but sword and board procs felt good and shield slam felt meaty when I hit.
(I still feel a little weird having my Warcraft Logs being brought into context here, but that’s the risk you run posting as your main, I spose)
Heheheheh. What a cool talent that was. +1 there. I love the 119% Single-Minded Fury/minor boot enchant. In that regard myself.
So with respect to rune flexibility, I definitely hear what you’re saying, 100% agree. I have a feeling the problem is going to solve itself at the end of the phase with multiple slots on the same piece of gear, but that’s 1) Not now 2) Conjecture. Runes add faculties to spells they didn’t have (Warbringer or Exorcist) or adjust CDs and procs (AoW).
Art of War and Exorcist have a synergy but they’re not the only one. The CD reset is for Exorcism and for Holy Shock, which is one of the things that makes it so nice for healers as well. So in this case, tying those two things together adds a synergy where there wasn’t one before. That doesn’t mean it’s not OK to ask for it, just in terms of having all your runes on a panel like glyphs in Wrath vs. getting Exorcist at a reduced “slot cost” one of those, to me, is an easier design sell.
One of the problems we have horde side with the Lion rune is convincing hunters to run it at times, especially before it got a personal buff. MM was 5% crit, so was superior damage for the hunter, but hurt the raid. The fix in this case was to add in a personal buff for the hunter. For some of the group utility buff runes like Exemplar, I wonder if there aren’t personal buff components that could be added to “sweeten the deal” - Exorcist is really good for your spec, but rewarding team play is good too.
Solid post, and I definitely learned a thing or two. Thank you. 
-Horse
I agree on the competition between dps runes and support runes and it should be fixed but asking to merge those two runes is a bad game design choice.
What would you offer to compensate players who want to try paladin?
You deprive them of the possibility of trying exorcism until lvl 30, how is it fair?
Adding Windfury to Horn of Lordaeron would also be a problem for fight like Onyxia because you couldn’t use inspiration exemplar and windfury at the same time.
But I agree I don’t think windfury is good idea for Paladin.
Why would you want to add more rng?
There are other options than adding a new rng mechanism in our rotation.
See above for my thoughts on merging AoW and Exorcist.
Also there is a problem with the exorcism gameplay. Exorcism is now our first priority in our rotation and that’s a problem and you just spam it from dawn to dusk eacht time it’s up and it’s not a healthy gameplay.
I hope Blizzard will find a way to fix this.
Anyway I agree with you to add flash of light to AoW but I think it should also increase its healing by somehting like 50% atleast because right now FoL is weak.
Is it necessary?
Why?
How is it supposed to help prot paladin?
No not every paladin wants to be pigeonholed once again with this kind of gameplay.
For many years we were stuck with the “skyrocket damages” every 2 minutes and the rest of the time doing weak damages and you want to do that again?!
Thank you but no.
A holy windfury for group? Is it serious?
If we can’t have a snare then I admit I’d love to see WotLK Judgement of Justice back.
You clipped one single comment out of the entire thread without context or provided reaction/interaction as some passé “HAH GAWTCHA xD” moment from over a week prior - and due to your utter obsession with me just had to reply and try to “UHM ACHKTCHUALLY” me without reading or any context provided about how we were discussing the permanent 100% uptime rotation of mana regen / DR%.
I get it, you spent like 3 days crying your eyes out over messing up the honor bracketing because you don’t understand how 1.15 patch cycle works… But stalking me thread to thread and rage replying to me a week after I say something is just pathetic.
Please go away.
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Ty for proving my point for me yet again
N.O.
If you think Ret is weak, you’re just a trash Ret.
I legit wanna see how you beat shamans that insta heal with current damage reduction pro. Please post youtube links teach me.
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Might be a long reply sorry
- Not on me. I dont record videos of all my playtime or remember videos that show particular onesided battles or a list of them.
What I can remember from my playing experience is when I started PvPing on my paladin for phase 2 (serious like hours per day), I equipped my PvP set (Stamina Based shy of 6k hp at 40) and I quit in a single saturday since I started pvping at 2pm. Had a nice win, won the blacksmith clash and the horde gave up immediately. Then I didnt get a single win until 5am in a single play session. I didnt give up until I got a win.
Also around this time was another streamer who was bragging that he just got to 40 on his shaman and went 11 out of 14 in green gear 2v1ing.
Also being prot/holy full stam tank set and having 30% bonus hp(bg) and dying in a single fear or 4-6 second stun soured any idea of making a comeback.
So no in phase 2 when I was PvPing I didnt have any data, but if you find some send me the link.
- I saw it and knew it was bad from the beginning and complained from the beginning, warriors are top and the min maxers on alliance exclusively rely on the +5 to onehanded swords for the DW fury to better their itemization. Gnome mage having 5% more intellect doenst translate to more than 0.5% crit which in really long fights with many mana replenishment items involved would out dps troll’s cooldown ability but no fights are long, mages arent top DPS unless its an AoE kind of meme fight. Even on Menegerie mages fell behind warriors. So warriors despite the devs efforts and memes at blizzcon are still top dogs and anyone who wants to maximize in PvE as well as PvP will roll horde for Orc Bloodfury or if they are more PvE then PvP troll.
Seeing Orc become the overpowered race is unsurprising being Thrall is the MC.
So the best race/class for dps will be orc warrior or maybe troll but berserking is only 10s instead of 25. And the PvE speed runners will be on horde and the PvPer’s will too. Alliance will have the people who havent figured it out yet (noobs) or people who wanted to play a more typical Lotr/DnD fantasy to embody their characters online but are resisting playing the superior faction and will be sandbagged by noobs and overpowered by pros in Bgs which will be more likely to occur.
- Yes, however I draw on established ideas in order to do so.
25% resistance to the most powerful form of CC in the game, escape artist once every minute you can break a root or snare which have many other ways out of them. When your stunned your options are serverly limited.
As previously said Bloodfury will make Orcs the best in PvE as warriors will be unstoppable as they get geared and they will have the sword weapon skill of the alliance to finally have 100% advantages over them in PvE as well.
Will of the Forsaken, every 2 minutes break fear and immune to it for 5 seconds so you dont even need to sometimes reapply a stun as an UD rogue on priest or lock or warrior if they are thinking about fearing (usually not). Which is the 2nd most overpowered form of CC, which is all PvP is CC and burst.
Fear ward and desperate prayer* being given to horde and alliance gets devouring plague and touch of weakness.
Devouring plague and touch of weakness are strong and it is appreciated but in group PvP which I focus more on defensive abilities are stronger, passive defensives are the strongest in group PvP like the orc racial but in general a defensive>offensive unless the offensive is outrageously strong.
The reason for this is the defensive allows for pressure to be continously applied and people to live longer to keep applying that pressure and pvp really is (ingeneral) a game of not who can hit the hardest but who can keep hitting longer through given equal CC.
Fear ward is a passive buff that makes someone ignore the first fear that lands on them, very strong against pressuring any class that fears or being used defensively as a healer to heal and not get caught by a warlock flanking the group to CC.
Desperate prayer is an instant free heal that is stronger than flash of light and saving someone who is at 10% or lower means that person stays fighting by your side which is invaluable compared to not having it and critical in group PvP when the pressure is fast and high and you need instant strong heals sometimes to keep people up.
Now for shamans, their entire class is built around burst so they are amazing at PvP. Alot of instant attacks, bonus attacks, guaranteed crits. The only real problem I have with this class is the guaranteed crits and randon instant cast guaranteed crit lava burst or ele mastery earthshock and Maelstrom weapon giving instant huge heals. Reincarnation is a better feign death on a longer cooldown but it isnt super over powered. If it was a minute CD I would be complaining. I woud also argue purge is stronger than people think as you can purge golds of buffs off of people being on the front lines but if your a cloth priest on the front lines dispelling on the alliance you’ll be lit up and not get very far.
Now for paladin criticism, mainly bubble and reckbomb. The answer is melee hunter shouldnt beat paladin 100% of the time when they have ranged and are more of a ranged class. Rogues can easily beat a paladin when their bubble is off CD(5m) the only class that I see having a right to complain about vs paladin is warrior. Theyve had it bad since the beginning and should be given something that helps them more in pvp and more utility in raids so they arent all damage.
If your still losing to paladin 1v1 just run away and kite them, they have no gap closer outside of swiftness pot or other speed enhancement which you also have too.
Perception, only good in duels. Somewhat of a gamble to use in AB or WSG as you dont really know if someone is there or if the rogue is hiding behind something or above or below you. Only good situationally good against rogues once ever 3 minutes.
Stoneform, good mostly as a counter to rogues coming from another rogue to restealth from rupture/garrote or to break or anticepate a blind or wyvern sting. Breaking a weak limited amount of CC every 3 minutes with immunity to it for 8 seconds. Definately weaker than breaking the 2nd strongest CC every 2 minutes with 5 seconds of immunity. Those extra 3 seconds of immunity dont for much when its only against two kinds of CCs. Dwarf priests can break out of a vipersting if they are flanked by a hunter for a short while which counts for something, and in the current meta counts harder since its a priest’s mana meta, but this meta wont last as its priest centric and to a lesser extent healers and suppresive to every burst class which is by the numbers of people who play priest versus those classes by definition unpopular. Priests vs Rogue,Hunter,Warrior,Mage or meme’s like destro lock and ret paladin. If the meta of this phase were to last for the rest of the Season then this racial would be better but not on 25% chance to be immune to CC or breaking the 2nd strongest CC every 2ms with a 5 second immunity level of PvP strength.
Shadowmeld, once again limited and highly situational. If your team needs to move around alot then people will see them stealth and the element of surprise will be lost, they might even be sapped in shadowmeld. A warrior can get a charge off, a priest can open with a flash heal or bubble likely without pressure, hunter can hope you run over his trap so you can aimed shot (only works 1v1 in group battles that freeze trap will break in pugs cleaving it and unless your inside of the stables and people cant see you and dont notice it the aimed shot isnt going off and people are going to be chasing you and you wont have the 25% stun resist when they catch you or fear break, but to be fair no hunter has fear break even thou theres not a good reason for Undead to not be hunters. Bad eyesight? What about a rogues precision?
Escape artist, probably the alliance's best racial. 1 Minute cooldown to break snare/root, no immunity given after, 0.5s cast. Great for rogue/warrior, okay for ranged if they get caught and can CC to get some distance then use it. Its good bc there are many kinds of snares and roots and slows. So its universally applicable usually however there are so many of these types of CC's that is becomes situational to use since you will be likely stuck in another form of that CC quickly if you use it too frequently, also you have to stop to cast it which makes it not as strong since you have to stop which is the goal of a snare/slow/root so the form of CC gets a minor win on you conceeding your movement to it. Also no immunity afterwards so like previously mentioned you will be stuck in anotherone shortly afterward if not used wisely. However it is only a 1m CD however the UD fear break racial is stronger since a warriors fear is 5m, a priests fear is 30s cd and a warlocks fear requires a cast. So you can kind of use this one immediately without thinking alot of the time and even if its a warlock with no CD on fear then with your 5s of immunity you can run up to them as a rogue or distance yourself as another class so they cant get another one off in that 5 second window. And if we're going to talk about tidal charm or bombs coming from the lock then the UD can use them too. Also warriors dont have to care about fear with all of their breaks. And there are alot of stuns out there so comparing escape artist to a flat 25% chance to resist means in group pvp you will be resisting more than 1 per minute if your on the front lines or being targetted by a rogue in the backlines.
And Warstomp a wonderful 0.5 second cast(hard to interrupt) that can stun an entire assaulting melee team at a base in AB or the defense in a flag room in WSG or any concetrated area so a partner frost mage can also drop a nice nova on them afterwards. This two second stun is excellent for getting the time and reaction advantage on the opposing team so you and your team can be a step ahead against the crowd you stunned and no worries no pesky orcs to resist it. Not game breaking but awesome in turning around in group settings or getting the upperhand on the jump if you jumped down on them.
These abilities are why I and generic opinion has long been that Horde>Alliance in PvP for a long time in WoW’s history and especially in vanilla and especially with the additonal bonuses horde have been given in SoD.
Alliance gets windfury? Well too bad cus they are in fears and stuns.
I await your evidence that alliance has the upperhand over horde collectively over all of these features with the way it stands.