well they havent tune anything from the feedback provided by us, in the forums, in the alpha, beta. prepatch, what indication you have they will change / tune it in the future?
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They’re literally tuning the beta right now. Have you read any of the recent beta builds? Other classes are getting nerfed. Havoc DH’s had one exceptionally good and one fairly good legendary introduced.
Most of the feedback in the feedback forums concerns how the class feels to play, not the numbers it’s putting out.
Looking at pre-patch numbers is a complete waste of time
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DH feels WEAK!, low dps, easy to die. with lower DPs, and even lower Leach… and longer CDs is not a surprise.
In the table DH went down 10 positions, from been in the middle when down Far on dps. I was expecting to balance classes, that all would be in a more less same, or bump a littlie the low tier classes. (also expect a little bit discrepancy since range doesn’t need to move and can evade mechanics way easier than melee)
Will be good to see something like damage taken, survival and in PVP
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It’s prepatch but this is a subjective statement and I disagree with it.
And you’re being irrational. Going from 1st to last doesn’t matter if the spread is within a reasonable % (lets say 5% for argument). This is more than a 5% spread, but it’s prepatch, and prepatch doesn’t matter since it balances classes for 60, not 50.
It’s prepatch. If you were legitimately expecting classes to be balanced at the new pre-expansion level cap then that’s on you.
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Outlaw is also one of the most boring spec ever. But people just like to bash on hero class. Just think about how people claimed DK where OP for years while in reality. They had been for 1 single arena season.
People still called DK braindead despite unholy beng one of the hardest class to play.
The damage is there, but the self sustain healing isnt.
i like the comment, but you cant do damage if you are death. dps and surviving really need a good revision.
Entirely subjective. What’s objective is that Outlaw is a infinitely better designed spec than Havoc. Outside of RTB, everything that’s baseline rotational plays with each other.
- Sinister Strike has a prob to make Pistol Shot worth using and gives you an immediate extra combo point.
- 5 point Finishers give a guaranteed combo point to keep the flow going.
- SND gives attack speed which increases your Combat Potency procs w/your off-hand autos and mastery procs w/your main-hand, which also increases Potency procs
- Between the Eyes is the “big” finisher that feels massive when it crits
- All finishers reduce the CD of your cooldowns
Outlaw has a cohesive baseline that creates a fast paced spec where its abilities actually play off each other. I would love even half of that cohesion.
And no, baseline Demonic and/or First Blood are not the answers.
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In and of themselves, no…
Buuuut, they give you some room to work with.
Now, lemme preface this with when I say first blood baseline, I want it for two reasons:
- Removes the talent from the row
- gives us that powerful high damage short cd ability.
That said, I’d much prefer blizzard just introduce a new ability to our baseline rotation and remove first blood altogether, but buff blade dance some so it’s actually worth pressing.
Still, if demonic is baseline, and first blood is (or just that new high damage ST ability), then you can start working with procs. I also think cycle of hatred should be baseline and should be contingent upon fury spent, sort of like a sub rogue’s deepening shadows.
This way we have a central core (demonic transformation) and we have a baseline passive that brings overall cohesion to that core, since using our abilities is reducing the cd of eye beam.
Then you can start introducing procs or other synergies between chaos strike and this new ability.
Problem is that when our class has so few buttons (and no mechanical core), there’s just nothing to work with
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I agree with you that outlaw is better designed then Havoc. That show how poorly havoc is designed. Outlaw still feel like Blizzard is trying to find an original way to have a third rogue spec. So its hard to believe blizz still struggle to design TWO spec for the DH.
Vengeance still better then havoc design wise, but it still feel like it just borrow mechanics of other class while being prone to mess up it’s own damage if he have to move and step on his orbs.
P.S. Outlaw is surely not fast paced right now, it is just so energy starved.
You have to remember that the same people don’t all work on every class. The person working on rogues is trying to make outlaw work and doing an okay job at making 3 rogue specs work. The person working on Havoc only has 1 dps spec to make work and they can’t even do that.
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Coming from a rogue, that is hilarious.
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DH survivability was disgusting and made no sense because it required zero effort on behalf of the player. They simply did everything would have done anyway and were passively unkillable.
That being said the class needs something like a feint-esk 100% defensive blade dance that has the 100% dodge mechanic on a 25 second cooldown again that does no damage. This gives players an ACTIVE way to be defensive instead of just being immortal because they are also being offensive.
The problem with the class currently is the game gave them nothing that is exclusively DEFENSIVE that better players can use at an appropriate time.
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Right, I’d argue that Demonic being “core” to the spec isn’t really true since it wasn’t good until it was aggressively pushed during Antorus and then everything else was nerfed going into BFA/its talents buffed. Additionally, with Furious Gaze being baseline now, that’s sort of killed any prospect of Demonic.
Ultimately, if we look at the history of what works and what hasn’t, what has realy synergy and not forced, Fel Blade, Demonic Appetite, and Eye Beam CDR through souls should be baseline with Demon’s Bite being swapped to Demon Blades or Fracture (which should, at the minimum, be a talent right now that replaces Insatiable Hunger at the minimum).
That would create a more cohesive kit that has synergy and promotes a more engaging style. That would put a stronger emphasis on souls, similar to Vengeance, and would likely require some tweaking to either our damage or fury generation, but it would be truly better than adding just Blade Dance to our rotation or devaluing our only DPS CD with Demonic.
And if Demonic was baseline, it’d last 4s at most and there’d be even more threads about how the nerf was unwarranted (when it was 100% justified but that’s another discussion). Metamorphosis needs a major change anyways since just upgrading Blade Dance and Chaos Strike is bland. I assumed it was going to be like WC3/Warlocks where you’d become ranged and shoot “chaos bolts” but I guess that’s not Blizzard’s idea of Demon Hunter fantasy anymore.
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Dh doesn’t need that.
A few days ago I went to Drustvar and took on the 3 lvl 50 elites that look to be some kind of Alliance quest. My DH and Lock was able to kill them, but my warrior, shaman, druid, and a few other classes I tried died miserably. That DH heal from souls is what kept me alive. So ya, other classes died easier and my DH has one of the lowest ilvl of all my alts.
Well, fantasy is fantasy regardless of how good or bad demonic has been throughout the years.
Demonic transformation, in my opinion, constitutes the core of our fantasy.
I don’t see why furious gaze hampers demonic being baseline?
Demonic appetite’s aspect of shredding souls should be baseline, however them granting fury should be what is talented. It’s pretty broken design that a really powerful self sustain is baked into a fury generation row.
Felblade should also be baseline imo.
I just don’t like the EoR mechanic. I don’t like how in high mobility fights, souls get left behind. I don’t think “souls” needs to be the overlap between havoc and vengeance. To clarify, by that I mean I don’t think havoc needs souls to be as intrinsic to the rotation as they are for vengeance. I think the overlap should primarily be baseline demonic transformation, albeit the demons function differently.
Your suggestions don’t really concern blade dance being baseline, though. They’re more fury-generation-oriented and less about high damaging abilities on a short cd. Primarily what you’ve done is provided a means to eye beam cd reduction, but why would we want our mechanical synergy centered around eye beam if it doesn’t transform us into a demon? It’s just a cool looking damaging-ability, but there’s nothing about it that really screams “class fantasy”.
Make demonic baseline, then change our 4 minute cd in meta to a 2 min cd in chaos blades (you can still keep the leap and land animation) Then there’s no devaluation of our offensive burst cd.
This is also why I think reworking cycle of hatred to simply be based on fury spent rather than rng chaos strike is better. It’s a cleaner design and it solidifies eye beam / demonic transformation as the mechanical and fantasy core of our rotation
I agree that meta would feel more meaningful if it adhered to Warcraft 3, so think about this:
Felblade’s baseline. It’s reworked to deal chaos damage and let’s say it applies a dot to the target cause why not. Whatever, lots of stuff you could do with this ability. When you enter demon form, felblade transforms to “fel bolt” and has an additional charge. Deals lots of chaos damage.
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1 sec dodge every 25 physicals damage, you are telling me that having to time perfectly 1 skill for one sec, compare to one button skill that you can press at any time to insta heal? wow…
I think they need some love
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I’m saying give the class an outplay mechanic so that in arena they can ACTUALLY do something. Because right now they do nothing. Other than pre-bluring stuns, and meta-immuning things there isn’t much you can do, in the sense that better players can’t be better than worse players because the toolkit and skill ceiling potential of demon hunter is non existent. Giving players an oppurtunity to use a defensive 100% dodge for 1 second can have you dodging stuns if you know when players want to press them. This gives the class more of a skill ceiling that will separate better players from worse ones.
The ability is also simply a suggestion. Pressing blade dance in Arena in openers when my healer would get sapped and I would see the marked for death debuff go over my heal, pre blade dancing the kidney was some of the more enjoyable aspects of playing DH. Blade dance dodge was disgusting because it was never a bad time to press it due to the short CD and it being your highest damaging ability, so they HAD to remove it, but by doing so left the class with less buttons to press to defensively counter other players.
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