So you’re cherry picking who to believe. Multiple people with more experience than you have told you multiple times why fire is busted and needs nerfs and you keep arguing in circles about why you think this isn’t the case. Nobody without bias thinks fire mage is fine. Also.
No idea who on earth you’re referring to here but 1v1 doesn’t matter, it will never be balanced and if you want mages to be good at 1v1s they need to lose more. If you’re unable to understand why the classes that are good at 1v1 also aren’t as amazing in other aspect fire mage is than you just don’t know how the game is played.
I’m not cherry picking, it is the general rule of “if he is a class main, he usually plays it more than a person, who is a class alt”. Also, 2 important voices are more than 1. Voices of other classes are less prioritized as they don’t play mages themselves, so they don’t know the whole picture.
1v1 matters and would matter as long as it can happen in any rated environment (2v2, RBG).
The same can be said about WOW PVP in general - not balanced and never will be, should Blizzard stop trying? And if not, they can try to balance on 3v3 as major mode with 2v2 and 1v1 decently taken into account.
Rogue is very good in 1v1 and also equally strong to the Fire Mage in XvX, as they play literally the same top comp there.
Feral is very good in 1v1 and has a very powerful XvX comp Jungle.
So no, classes that are good in 1v1 can also be good in other aspects, even several classes.
Playing the class and playing against the class while different do give you an understanding of what is toxic for the game. You don’t need to play hunter to know craven is disgusting and bad for the game.
The 1v1s in those situations are fundamentally different from any dueling you will ever do. You don’t have pillars in duels. You don’t have dampening in duels. You don’t have things like the eye in duels. And you don’t start a duel with half your cds used or at half health.
Rogues are complained about just as much as mages for having it all with no draw backs. This isn’t the gotcha you think it is.
Just because they’re good in other aspects doesn’t mean it’s the same for mages. You’re proving you don’t have any game knowledge saying something like that. When you can name a spec that does what fire can while also having the highest burst in the game with half of it off the gcd and being good at dueling we can talk.
Fire is good. It’s allowed to have some kind of weakness even if it’s a small one. Stop being bad.
Lmao Xaryu actually said fire mage gets destroyed by ret in duels/wpvp in that video. It’s literally impossible to die to Ret as fire mage if you play blazing soul and sheep them on freedoms. Dude is definitely a good mage, but stuff like that is so cracked I can’t tell if he’s just catering to his audience of terrible mages that wanna believe they’re gods for “making it work”, or if he’s actually that delusional himself. Either way I can safely say these “nerfs” will do little to reign in RMP or fire mage tankiness which are the most problematic things so I’m not sure why anyone would even care other than just being happy Blizzard is at least trying to do something.
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would you say fire mage “tankiness” is in line with Warlocks, Shadow Priest?
And still feedback about the class from the people that actually play it is prioritized to feedback from other classes. You wouldn’t value feedback about let’s say particular class Tier set from other classes as much as feedback from people that actually play this class.
While true, once again - pillars give advantages to both classes that remain, not only one, as allow both of them LoS enemy abilities / goes. They may start at different health levels, but they can just use the pillars to LoS and spam a healing spell or bandage / eat. Eye can be countered by CC-ing you from stealth before you pick it. While dampening does affect different classes unequally, as they have different amount of self-healing, it doesn’t start at very high levels, especially if it is 2 dd vs 2 dd, so in remaining 1v1 classes which are more affected by dampening have decent amount of time to kill classes that are affected less before they are in serious disadvantage.
Maybe, but fact is fact - current Rogue is both very good in XvX (equally good to Fire Mage in their mutual top comp) and very good in 1v1.
No, it is literally the same. They are equally good in XvX in their best comp, so no reason for them not to be closer in power in 1v1.
Assa Rogue with tier set and double legendary would like a word, just wait a bit till they get them.
You continue calling me bad, but you don’t know many things yourself that I explained to you earlier, lmao. “Ret doesn’t have mostly ranged burst”, right?
The ret can’t kill the mage but ur better off running and then DB’ing some of the freedom when he catches up. So you have poly DR for wings.
Fire can’t kill ret anymore too much defensive and heals. S1 it was possible before fire nerfs. Now not rly unless a ret feeds a cd. The fire has to play much better then the ret in this situation not to get ran over.
If im talenting and specing specifically for a ret? My best option is to run gpyro/meteor and try to 100-0 before he can press wog, assuming you get bubble first go and then run around for 2 minutes until bust is back and not die in that period or lose too much.
This matchup is technically ret favored since all you have to do is WOG and press bubble on bust.
Beatable sometimes but most fights end with 20 minute stalemate outside arena. I won’t die but neither will he. I’ve vs’d plenty of duel lord and experienced rets of all xp. Bad ones die, capable rets wont and will stalemate.
all the ret has to do his W key at you, wog himself rotate cds and try to kill you
On mage end you have to juke, know timing, constantly poly + eat reset and try to get combust shorter between to attempt a outright 100-0 gpyro/meteor
No ret with hands will ever die to a mage whose is running short combust with pyro kinesis/kindling and has no gpyro/meteor
Just my 2. I’ll toast a ret in arena cross kill 1v1 tho when dampen hits high enough
in BFA with our mastery from azerite it was incredibly easy due to ignite burn damage and rets lower self heals. SL made rets alot better 1v1s with conduits/leggo and their sustained healing. S1 was an exception pre-nerf fire you could kill rets but also die urself often pre nerf divine toll stuff was wild
Really disagree. Ret can get toasted in a ring of fire/gpy/combust go and you just live lord until he no longer has bubble shield of veng/battlemasters. He can’t generate sufficient holy power to wog without running though ring and will just melt. You’re definitely a good dueler though so I feel like you already know this. Regardless even if it’s a stalemate in the worst case scenario what he said is still completely untrue.
Ring DoT really isn’t that good anymore. You would have to be standing on it refreshing it constantly to make value
I’ve even tried experimenting with it and grisly ice legendary. If you can force someone to have no outs and frost nova into ring of fire combust its nasty.
The problem is most melee have an answer to every nova. Monks have tigers lust for it, rogues can vanish or sprint it with talent, warriors have storm and avatar, rets have freedom, ferals can shift it, dks have wraith walk, SV can FD or freedom it. DH can reverse it first go.
Even casters have solutions with shimmer/lock circle/boomy shifting it, priest can fade md
I think like shamans are only person i can trap with grisly ice combusts in a 1v1.
Trust me I experiment and dabble heavily for any new clever tricks or advantages.
but say I were to run grisly ice over triune or DC ring and a ret were to have no freedom maybe use it on a frostbolt or mirror images.
Then yes you would 100% die in a grisly ice combust nova with ring of fire on you. I think its one of those fool you once things though. The next duel you wouldn’t be so foolish and would save freedom exclusively for it
Also would add Gpyro having no CD was also a big shift in fire vs ret matchup, now with a 15cd you cant lob 2 of them nonstop every poly
what if you run double nova
Think it just helps if they do save a freedom and you shifting power your RoF back
I’ve played with it, the problem in a 1v1 is just the DR thing anyway, you’d have a really narrow window and your usually gonna shifting 4 fireblasts back on a combust. The first one you fire during shifting channel to refresh infernal cascade, then finish channel for the other 3
Plus I think ROF is better overall in general for 1v1 since you can ring someone low and stall for a cs or something if you need it. As opposed to poly resetting a potential win that you just needed a tad bit more time on
Idk if anyone agrees but i think thats the best fix for fire and all mages in general
ring of frost, make it baseline for frost mage only.
Give fire blazing speed baseline as compensation
do something with arcane idk what, supernova?
lvl 40 row features DB/Deep Freeze/Frostjaw to pick from for all 3 specs. You would still run DB majority of situations, deep for 1v1 and 2s and frostjaw for like wizard cleaves or smthing and druids? idk can they shift frostjaw or could they? I dont remember…maybe make it unique so they cant so arcane/fire have a way to deal with them with ring of frost removed from them
That should solve mage complaints and avoid any real conflicts. DB is superior to deep in RMP anyway since rogue can stun anyway and DB on a different DR is 1000% better for setting up esp when you can double when needed.
But trading it for deep freeze, and not that crappy variant that breaks on damage would make mages better for 1v1, 2s and give them better win conditions and solutions.
I think even you have played an alt mage enough to get frazzled vs anyone who has hands and awareness and denies you every window in 2s lol. Like gollyyyy if I had a freakin stun this guy woulda been dead a year ago. Trying to drag someone of middle of map and setup a poly and 100-0 the other before he can make it to pillar. Only really applies to low/mid tier folks tho. Anyone with awareness, cd tracking can read your obvious and telegraphed play all day
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Tbh I just look at that as me just trolling
If I’m not gunna get the CC I’m just gunna pve and try to kill in a random CS
Which is a lot easier said then done. I just think if they made DB/Deep/Frostjaw on a tier it would alleviate most issues and not rly change much other then some grumbling about losing ring of frost for other 2 specs and less things for people to complain about.
Who knows maybe arcane/frost rmp would be a thing again along with more rep from them with DB being accessible by both of them
Frentic speed and iceward is trolling anyway. I just think a change like that is an everyones happy and wins outcome.
- Fire no longer has ring of frost
- arcane/frost get access to db
- Mage 1v1/2v2 concerns are addressed.
Idk is it? Maybe just from the way that I kind of started playing mage in WoD where you just sat there and frostbolted till a good go or maybe just cause having counterspell is so much more reliable than any other kick feels like just getting a solid blink cs is straightforward and then you just focus on not dying
I mean you’ll have a bad time vs a hunter/healer but otherwise it’s sorta relaxing to play 2s on mage, I always liked playing mage healer
So if I want to live ill have to switch to necrolord for the same shield everyone else now has to use, and lose some burst. Not to mention probably change my leggo that’ll lovingly drain a huge portion of my gold to purchase. So sweet, another cookie cutter spec and another overreliance on fleshcraft to address the bursty nature of PVP, instead of fixing vers.
Not everyone wants the shield, it’ll literally be another class that I’ll be forced to use the shield just to live. It’s turned to where yeah you I can use doomwinds, but now you’ve gotta refocus into wolfbones to keep survivability as well.
Just fought a pally and two heals didn’t move my health bar, so two wasted stacks and then I’m killed by a 27k final verdict crit that I would’ve lived through if my heals weren’t nerfed. Also through nearly 27%+ vers in pvp. So yeah it sucks everyone gets to be yet another cookie cutter spec that relies on yet another barrier so we’re not killed in 2 seconds.
PVP is abysmal right now, I’d take 2-3 fights again over this burst filled barrier nonsense. Not to mention ranged still having literally every advantage + more survivability + more barriers. I’m pretty much going back to maining my hunter just to not die.
It is now I think unless you meaning playing frost which is do-able still prob in a cs and good line up. Graycen does frost healer.
I don’t think fire/healer would feel as good or play well. Idk I don’t play with heals lol
Can just play the same way I feel as fire though, did that any time I played fire healer since BfA
BFA fire had lethal ignite though with mblaster and no gpyro cd.
Idk hats off to anyone now who wants to play vs any sort of melee/healer combo as fire/healer, not really my jam. I’m sure some ppl play it and win just sounds like more headache then its worth.
Queing into feral/unholy + heals as fire+ heals sounds like a very long and unfun match.
If fire had a relevant slow like 50-60%+ it might not be as aggravating though, just not my cup of tea personally. Frost does it better
I left out hunter part bc yea that goes without saying lol
I mean unholy DKs are nonexistent in 2s
They haven’t been played in a long time
Fire mage hpriest is good in 2s only issue is just hunters but anything else is really not that bad
petkick gave up his throne in 2s? Idk i dont keep up with 2s i just do it for fun on occasion or to help get rating upgrades.
I think hpriest anything is good, but rly decent for mage cus of chastise stun. With chas stun you can def kill in a cs as fire.
I’d much rather have db/deep/frostjaw on a talent row and be able to drop DB for deep so I could make my own plays and do 1v2 carries much easier tho. Since thats the only world in which I see fire keeping its current iteration and having a stun
its why i messed around with grisly ice a fair bit trying to find a way to get rly good attempts on ppl. Mage would be up there with rogue for doin carries if we had the tools or could spec the tools.