Wait. What? If you’re doing it that way then you’re doing the whole guild thing wrong. No wonder they deleted master loot. Most guilds (especially the upper end ones) do the exact opposite for fairly obvious reasons. If those reasons are not obvious to you, then I wouldn’t want to be in your guild.
Time served is another matter.
You’ve literally never been part of an upper-end raiding guild and you have exactly two AotC achievements. Please don’t speak as if you know what you are talking about when it comes to top end guilds. Loot goes to who it will benefit most, since it’s raid group > individuals, and the people who benefit from it most are the ones who are already parsing highest or whose BiS it is for that slot.
And outside of not being able to trade if it’s an ilvl upgrade (which I think we can all agree is kinda dumb) what about personal loot stops you from doing that anyway?
I mean, that’s the biggest issue right there. Being unable to trade loot that is an upgrade. Then you have to deal with the issue of the personal loot dropped is tailored to that spec(In the instance of Azerite gear) and the fact that the trial, if they won the mount, could just /gquit right there and not trade the mount to anyone.
Are we really back to the “our trials are always so incompetent they shouldn’t get any loot” argument? You kept that person as a “trial” and continued to use them in your mythic raids even though you knew you were going to let them go at the end of the trial period with nothing to show for their efforts but a loss of time that they could have used to find a guild they were more suited for.
But that time is over. You wasted a month of their time, and they can never get that back.
You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming some trial you were taking advantage of for your own refusal to exercise good management.
Azerite is locked to class, not spec, so there’s nothing stopping your Rogues from shifting stuff around. May even be able to trade as normal. Don’t know though, full disclosure I’ve never had a reason to trade Azerite
Mount’s obviously a different story but that kind of raises the question of why you’re bringing a trial into a Mythic progression run in the first place? Even then, why shouldn’t they have the chance since they played their part in getting the kill?
The majority of the community on these forums expresses a strong dislike for organized guilds. The reasons for which are not entirely clear.Many may not even have experience with the type of guilds they so authoritatively criticize.
That blinded guild hating lot don’t believe in things such as that effort or contribution should be assessed and acknowledged holistically.
They believe your time spent with the guild, doesn’t matter.
Your contribution to the kill. Is not greater than anyone else who showed up.
And you do not deserve any input concerning your own rewards.
You get whatever rewards the unexplained and uncontrollable dice decide to give you.
Just like that guild hating lot has historically had to deal with.
Another person who has never been part of a high-end guild spewing nonsense about things they haven’t a clue about. People trial for, on average, 4 weeks with a guild. During that time, if they show potential or competence, they are made a raider. Would you rather a trial be confirmed or denied within a week? What if they were having a bad week? Should they be denied right then and there? What it wasn’t shown that they had no idea how to follow healer CD rotations during that first week? Should they still have been confirmed? That trial period is meant to evaluate performance and how well they mesh with the group. It’s not, in the least, taking “advantage of them” when they knew what being a trial entails.
Azerite is locked to class and that’s the biggest issue with personal loot as opposed to a token system in ML so thank you for bringing that up. It could literally work just like tier did in previous expansions under ML. And it isn’t at all uncommon for a trial to be brought on progression bosses, since those are the bosses that matter most. We had trials in(Including me) for our Aggrammar kill. We had trials in for our Argus kill. We had trials in for our Elisande, Star Augur and Gul’dan kills. Why shouldn’t they get a chance to roll for the mount? They could have been pulled in because a main raider was unable to make it and they could get one pull in on the boss for a kill. They performed at, again, a 30th percentile for their spec. Raiders who have been there for every pull, who are pulling above 90, shouldn’t have a higher loot priority? Spare me.
Sure. People trial for 4 weeks. Saying that at the end of 4 weeks their performance was consistently far below satisfactory after you took them into progression raids every week (which is what the post I was responding to was describing) is nothing more than admitting you knew right from the start that they were not qualified, but you continued to use their services and deceive them into thinking that they were still under consideration.
I’m not sure why you think that lying to them about that and wasting a month of their time when you knew they were nowhere near what you needed should be acceptable.
Being unable to tell for 4 weeks that they weren’t going to make the cut means YOU were the problem.
Don’t bring scrubs to your raid, only bring people who “deserve” the mount, problem solved. Unless that is, in your mind, you are the only one who deserves the mount but can’t clear the raid on your own and then I suggest you quit playing. Plus mounts aren’t progression gear, so your whole argument is invalid.
Hey, I’m not saying I’m against ML, but you can’t deny those are valid questions and you must see those responses would discourage anyone from bothering to trial in the first place. End of the day, the world’s a much more “me-centric” place these days (a point, wittingly or not, you’ve demonstrated throughout this thread) and putting people through however many weeks of work for no reward outside of “hey, you might get called into the team one day, then you’ll get stuff.” just isn’t going to fly any more.
Either way, PL’s here and it’s unlikely to be going anywhere. I personally don’t believe the ML abuse was as widespread as it was made out to be, but Blizz would have had the actual numbers, saw that something needed to be done and for these sorts of things you really have to legislate towards the bad actors.
It’s a legal requirement for me to wear a bicycle helmet. I haven’t come off my bike since I was first learning and it’s unlikely to happen any time soon so why should I wear one? Because enough motorists out there are big enough jerks that there’s a high enough chance they’ll knock me off.
Again, how shocking someone who has never stepped foot in a real raid doesn’t understand the concept of trialing someone over a period of time. Tell me something, have you ever worked a job where they start you in a probationary period? Probably not, so I’ll explain why they do that. It’s so they can evaluate your performance and how well you mesh with your other coworkers. If you are a good fit, you make it out of the probationary period. If you aren’t, you are let go. The same is the case for a Mythic raiding guild, not that you’ll ever have to actually worry about that.
I was one of the last people in my raid to get the Argus mount due to the fact that I was one of the newest people in the group. In fact, I got it 2 weeks before forced personal loot came into effect. The people who deserve the mount are the ones who put forth the most effort and performed the best, end of story.
Neither have you apprently. Not that it matters since it’s common sense but i guess elitism is alive an well with players such as yourself. And since you don’t know what you’re talking about, i’ll spell it out for you because you just defeated your own argument. Those who are under-performing (i.e. due to ilvl) would benefit the most from such upgrades. Not those performing better due to higher ilvl. Good grief. Logic much?
Well, here we go again. Mr “How dare anybody I haven’t given permission in advance to post in my thread! Only mythic raiders are permitted to have opinions on the subject!”
Maybe if you hadn’t posted those 10 maxed out threads with you and your 2 best and most foul-mouthed friends that had to be deleted because they were so insulting to the playerbase?
For anyone who is interested, this is the poster who created the meme “We don’t steal trials’ loot” and pushed 10 threads of endless spamming of insults until yes, they all had to be deleted.
He was also telling people that he was going to be falsely reporting everyone posting in the thread who was not a mythic raider, and encouraged everyone reading those threads to also falsely report en masse.
This is, yes, the person who was responsible for the loss of master loot, by making mythic raiders look like such horrible people that no one could support them in the end.
They absolutely aren’t valid questions. Being a trial, in no way, meant you were unable to get gear. It simply meant you were under raiders in priority to get gear. Acting as though that is somehow unfair is irrational and illogical. I’ve proven that the world is me-centric? I’m the one arguing for the benefit of the entire raid group instead of an individual is performing below average that were lucky to be brought in on fights that they didn’t know. Also, ML abuse? That was done with when they made it so that you need 80-90% of the raid group being from the same guild to make it ML in the first place.
I’ve never been part of an upper-end raiding guild? That’s adorable. How many Cutting Edge achievements do I have compared to you? And, in case you were unaware, there are ways to see how a person performed compared to other players at their item level. For example, you performed at a 23% for your ilvl on Zek’voz and only an 8% overall. You would not get a bigger increase in performance simply giving a piece of loot to someone who had a lower ilvl piece. You would have to sim how big of an increase it would be for that spec, compared to another spec, and then you would have to compare the players themselves of the specs. Please do show your ignorance more though on this matter.
If you are going to accuse someone of something, you might want to try accusing the right person. I’ve literally reported one person on the forums, ever, between Burning Crusade and today. I’ve also never threatened to report a single person. You are just a foolish LFR player who tries to discuss matters he hasn’t the foggiest clue about and then you try to claim I did something I didn’t in an attempt to discredit me.
P.S. I was permabanned for the last year-year and a half of Legion so how exactly did I create those threads again?
Oh because alt’s that are just getting started in Uldir aren’t a thing, amirite? Stop using petty and logically flawed Ad hominem attacks to explain your inability to understand a basic concept of working together as a guild. You don’t need to be in Method to figure out giving someone higher ilvl gear will (all thigns being equal), improve said players DPS/HPS in a raid. If you can’t get that basic concept, then I don’t know what else to tell you.
And guess what sweet pea? Blizzard appears to agree with me. Hence their decision.
But as Orsobovushas has pointed out, you appear to basically be trolling at this point so I won’t feed you anymore.
Master loot should without a doubt still be in effect for mythic progression.
Reward for dedication and contribution is not a new phenomenon. Mythic raiders want this system in place for a reason. True CE players will use the loot to the benefit of the raid. Only non team oriented people would worry about “where” the loot is going. When you trial with a guild you are may be evaluated but you should also be evaluating them and their customs and norms. If you see loot being handled unfairly then like for many other reasons it may be time to move to something more in your climate. Many guilds use a currency form such EPGP or the such to handle loot. Master loot made the dispersion of loot MORE fair in that many proper raid would distribute with last loot in mind.
Then we have the “cant give away with > item level”. You know how many weapons I’ve seen go to crap because while the staff or sword was 60% upgrade for A, player B that got the item (and would not use the weapon) didn’t have a sword or staff or etc. It’s a s*** system that artificially gates progression and adds even more layers of ridiculous RNG.
You are likely a player who has literally never simmed a single piece of gear, think all secondary stats are equal, think all Azerite traits are equal and think that trinkets have the same level of benefit for every spec. You, like Orsobovushas, have no clue what you are talking about and that is painfully obvious with every post you make. It’s hilarious that you whine about ML despite never having done content that actually required it.
Don’t you dare introduce logic into this thread! The people who only do LFR, Normal and Heroic will claim you are wrong despite having never stepped foot in a current Mythic raid past the first few free bosses!