here’s a cla from your very first algalon kill ever - you had 12 people fall into sub 20% territory, 6 of them would have straight died, only they were buffed by commanding shout, anecdotal gaming, your entire algalon kill would never have happened if it wasn’t for a gnome and a shout and u are doing it almost entirely in 232+ gear, imagine u had naxx gear? everyone of these players would have been on the floor.
Its the same story in my own raid - first algalon kill we had 2 holy paladins live on 8%, a resto shaman live on 9%, two 99+ parsing affliction warlocks live on 8-9%, so much for brez and innervate
Neither is feral, lmao. Feral has mana, can heal, go resto, tank, and be a great spell caster.
Warriors has a tank spec… okay. No mana. No healing. Almost no utility. Heck, all of the “only dps classes” have overall more utility than warrior. In 25 man and 40 man content you’d have one MT and 1 or 2 OTs. Being able to tank without the utility of a “hybrid” does not make you worthy of a hybrid tax. Warriors are for all intents and purposes a pure dps class. If a warrior doesnt bring damage, it has no place in your raid.
Feral now is basically assassination level dps but can brez, innervate, quick OT, bleed buff, crit buff, etc. It does significantly more damage that warrior and brings way more utility. It can OS healer, spell caster, or tank as well.
True hybrids are paladins, druids the most, shamans, and priests. Classes with a lot of utility, buff, and healing capabilities. Warriors do not fit that bill, at all.
cla is combat log analytics, its just a more advanced logging tool, the percent dips are mostly not at the same time, but some are
Around 2 mins 10 into the fight, whollygainz accidently steps on a blackhole and gets ported into the nether realm where a bunch of shadow dudes proceed to lay the smackdown on him, he lives with 5% and lives another 3 minutes of the fight, but at 5:05 he gets clobbered by a 22k cosmic smash and gets dropped to 9% again, his death alone being prevented considering how important holy paladins are to the entire outcome of the fight is probably enough to have saved the entire pull.
At 3:58, karadear takes a 19k blackhole explosion and drops to 8%, would have been a straight 1 shot from 100% if not for your shout
at 1;53, Stabjob takes a blackhole explosion and an arcane barrage within 2 seconds, deals 24k damage and drops him to 10%, without shout, he would have died, he ended up topping dps with nearly 3m damage done
that is now very unlikely. The best ferals got a 12% boost and average ferals got a 20-30% boost, and they scale really well into ICC as well. Warriors are so far behind and they have been scaling in parallel with other classes. There will be no miracle at 264 to boost their damage. Few will ever get a legendary, and even with a legendary theyll be upper middle of the pack at best.
A class having the utility of a hybrid is what warranted the tax. They generally bring good buffs, debuffs, etc as well. Its always been a balancing tool to provide some classes more utility. It is an MMO with teamwork, afterall.
It would be very hard to balance a game where the class that can heal also does the same DPS as a class that cannot. Especially in classic, where hybrid tax was the worst. They’ve largely pulled away from that model, and by wotlk, hybrid tax was supposed to be in the 5-10% range.
Basically, you do slightly less dps but the utility or buffs you bring make it worth it. If you do 1k less dps but add 5k dps to the raid, its worth it for example.
Warrior is not a hybrid by any traditional definition of hybrid. Im not “choosing” what is or what isnt. Its basic principle that classes that bring other extremely strong tools like buffs, debuffs, healing, etc have strong value.
The game also isnt purely PVE. How would Class A that does X dps beat Class B ever if they do the exact same damage profiles but class A can heal and B cannot? Its also been integral to the game.
A warrior cannot cyclone you. It cannot heal itself much (classic and TBC had 0 healing, now it has a one time 30% heal which is hardly anything and costs damage/enrage to use). It cannot Brez someone. It cannot root you at range. It cannot heal allies. It cannot become a spell caster. It cannot do most of what a druid does. It cannot drop totems, ground a spell from an ally, pummel at a distance, heal allies, knock you back, cast heroism, turn you into a frog, etc.
See the point? Hybrids all have mana. They all have a lot more tools. Buffs, debufs, healing, etc.
Also the “tank” aspect of them does not apply to their dps spec at all. If a shadow priest had 0 access to its heals, bubbles, fears, dispels, etc and only did damage, it would complicate the equation, but every hybrid keeps more of their utility as their damage spec to some degree. If warriors having a prot spec added a ton of prot utility that was relevant as fury or arms the equation might change but it doesnt. They have a spec that fulfills one spot in a raid of 25 or 40.
If a warrior doesnt bring damage, its not useful. It has no utility, offheals, tools, or extra things going for it to make it worth bringing if its not competing with mages and rogues for example.
any competent raid group is built around buffs, debuffs, and utility. There is an entire section on wowhead dedicated to building a raid comp that calculates what you bring and dont bring. The raid sims do a similar thing while also simming the effects…
If youre playing the game at the lowest levels I dont know how to help you understand this more.
Pugs are notoriously terrible at making raid groups that fill all debuff/buff limits because they mostly don’t tackle content hard enough where u absolutely need a 3% damage buff or something like that- but i’ve seen a lot of “need spriest!!” for algalon soaking, naxx mind controls etc
The irony here is that you’re all mad about various aspects of a game from 2009, because many of you made aggressive suggestions for change, and they listened, and now we have the wrath classic that we have now.
Not sure why people couldn’t just shut up, accept the product we got, and then like it or lump it, love it or move on.
The problem is that everyone wants the game to be packaged specifically for them and that’s just not possible. Y’all are gonna get them to degenerate the game so much, we’re going to have wow tokens before you know it.
I find the begging for buffs on the forums extremely annoying, however I don’t think any of these issues would exist if the game played out like original wrath. If we look at the balance changes so far all of them have been due to things not working like they did originally. UHDK/Ret/Feral and now people talking about War are all not how the game originally worked.
So it’s “fair” to have 1 S tier melee DPS class, but not fair to have 2?
I don’t get it Seems backwards to me.
Everyone is so toxic lmao. Nothing has changed for warriors. And clearly none of you are worried about have Assa/Affic/uDK being all S-tier and demolishing warriors…BUT FERALS IS NOT ALLOWED
Reminds me of those people who decided to boycott CrackerBarrel for adding meatless meat. NOTHING HAS CHANGED except for adding 1 extra item. But american flipped their sh1t.
Have a think about how you would feel if Fury got the buff instead and went from average dps to top tier in this phase with one Blizzard intervention while Feral stayed mid tier.
How would you be right now in that case? Happy for us?
I don’t think you would. I think you’d think we were overtuned (and rightly so).
You think it’s acceptable for your spec because that’s your spec.
Why do you think? We’re average until all the other average dps gets buffed to the point of making us below average. Perhaps we don’t see why the spec of a popular class that does more dps than us on many fights should have been buffed to top tier.
On top of this it is quite clear to us that we play the most hated class in the game that constantly gets trolled on these forums - maybe you can see why we don’t feel generous about it?
In my case I’m trying to campaign for there to be a lid on all the buffs and that gets harder to do as more classes get buffed. I start to think why not buff Warriors? Why not buff Marksman?
The Ret buff made some sense the Feral buff doesn’t.
Hunters and Warriors are the lowest represented classes in the game why not buff them if we are keen on shifting the meta?