In the way that Warriors are pretty much hated in the Classic community. Many would rather see a Warrior nerf (even if we’re weak) than a buff.
“Should be” =/= “is”.
I’m not convinced fairness is a core objective of Blizzard at this point. I am keen to hear a Dev response to what heuristic they are applying to balance - if any.
In what way are they hated more so than “insert class here that has an advantage or preferable treatment over what X hater is currently playing”. Also i completely find peoples dislike or likability of a class irrelevant to the fairness of buffing or nerfing them.
I mean it seems to be what ever a dev is playing and then combine it with some arbitrary and demonstrably false justification. That was what it was clearly for paladin. Which is why they seem to have just been buffing and nerfing stuff and stopped justifying why.
Lol no. I’m staring at the logs. Rogues don’t pass warriors until pre patch and the rogue poison changes go through.
If you wanna try to tout rogues in TBC that is a losing fight. They were awful until about p5 when they scaled. Even then you brought 1 for IEA.
Lol rogues in tbc
warriors were known to be insanely op with loot prio on everything.
that attracts a certain type of people, aka trash.
Most ppl have had very disproportionately bad experiences with warriors. So, it’s probably true that most would rather see warriors nerfed. But buffs aren’t justified either way.
And you didn’t get them so hopefully you don’t
There’s a prot set and a melee dps set, there are not separate fury/arms sets.
frost mages and sub rogues have a ton of CC, survive, and utility in those specs, while also having 2 other S+ tier specs to choose from. Arms does not have that luxury, so your point falls flat.
this is also just wrong
Aggrend said we’d be kings in Ulduar with the ilvl boost. It has been shown he was 100% wrong, so the entire premise has to change. It would make sense to leave warriors 35% below others in Naxx if they were 5% ahead of everyone in ICC. When the gap never closes, though, because we are on the ARmor Pen Nerfed patch, and a dev was ignorant of that, the point now fails.
Maybe you should have a look again, gruul single target, warriors are behind rogues, while this is inflated with logs utilizing recklessness a 30m CD and Chicken(chicken going both ways for the melee) either way all were behind several others even ret.
Only mag massive cleave at the start and Gruul cleave pushed warriors up in the tier over time, vastly different to what it was originally and even then at the very end of P1 as i showcase rogues still beat warriors on gruul that had a mechanic that gave em infinite rage via just standing in the debris puddles. So again, they were from lauch and into P1 worse than rogues.
Tout what, you are touting warriors, when i can showcase it being wrong until p2 mostly p3 ssc/tk with full bis. where they hit 4th 3rd best dps, where again rogues arent far behind, you can even try and look at all the single target fights 99% which outside of being screwed up with at the time (guaranteed 30% melee haste from chicken) pushed melees way higher than they were actually performing.
Known to who ? Warriors that had loot prio was the MT, called the MT prio, which happened to be a warrior in Classic.
Otherwise it is just best class/most benefit prio. Which has been a variety of classes including warriors.
yeah and now that trash is playing dks and rogues and warlocks, in TBC they were playing warlocks and hunters, then might have swapped to warrior in BT, but not many did as it still required you to get lucky with legendary drops to have that luxury big performance.
Most people have been ganked and killed by rogues and as an extent hate rogues far more than the warriors that was most likely tanking their leveling dungeons.
there are loads of experiences in wow and i doubt warriors being the most hated by everyone is the only or most prevalent one.
No cause they build the direct implementation of the arms set into the tier token, are you arguing that feral bear and feral cat isnt both specs in the game cause they share the same tier set ?
The tier for warrior clearly mentions arms only abilities like sudden death and mortal strike that is 40 points into the arms tree.
Exacty, aggrend made a tons of justifications, the problem is that everyone one of them was in disagreement with a previous statement they made or straight up just wrong like warrior scaling, especially since in original wrath the version of the game we are playing on was already nerfing armor pen, TG and shadowmourne warriors as a result of their scaling back then.
The pally buff largely hit the mark. It didn’t change the meta but made Ret less of a carry. Combined with their utility and the general strength of the Pally class, Ret is pretty much where they should be. Low end but not uncompetitive.
Blizzard got lucky on that one though - as demonstrated by their mangled attempt at addressing Feral (pun intended).
I did. In p1 combat was behind fury in all three fights including ST gruul you claim.
That’s just logs though. I know facts don’t sit well
Just for comedy sake I looked at the rest of the raids to see where fury ranked vs combat.
SSC/TK phase 2.5
Fury: 5
Combat 12
BT/Hyjal phase 3.5-4
Fury:5
Combat: 12
Sunwell phase 5
Fury:2
Combat:5
In every single phase fury is the strongest melee dps. So as I said rogues scaled in phase 5. And no warrior that actually played warrior is going to tell you that rogues we’re better than warriors
The biggest flaw was that end game performance was not a factor in whether to buff or nerf any of the other specs yet it was used to justify nerfing Fury.
Buffs and nerfs shouldn’t be used to define an end game meta expectation. Adjust it if and when it becomes relevant.
This cuts both ways. Warriors are not entitled to top dps in ICC simply because they expected to.
In all phases balancing should strive to keep classes and specs within a predefined range of each other without redefining the meta.
I sometimes feel like Classic is where Blizzard train their interns. Give them a dabble at class balance before bringing them into the retail team…
How is any of this even relevant? I could drag up retail numbers where Rogues outperform Warriors - so what. These are different games.
How butt hurt you feel about a different game has no bearing on this one.
When someone says rogues were better than
Warriors in tbc it’s relevant.
Don’t blame me for others stupid claims
Yeah well their comment was also irrelevant.
Yet you took it up with me?
This is irrelevant to the topic - different game.
We happy?
I was happy when I made him look like a moron.
But your comment just makes me smile more
FotM reroller parse-brain loot goblins rerolled off of warrior a looooooooong time ago.
The pixels on the screen have real people behind them.
Don’t be mad at warriors, be mad at the people who screamed at you in voice chat.
The people you disliked in classic vanilla likely went to feral tank or warlock dps or somesuch in TBC and rerolled again for Wrath.
let’s not forget that why would you do that at all anyway because you bring a feral and you get more debuffs, more buffs, innervates and b-rez. completely ridiculous. if ppl chose to make a feral and found the rotation too difficult to play well, then they should play another class. ferals could really pump before the buffs–if they were really good. ferals who couldn’t prob should have just made sin rogues. really really ridiculous.
No they werent rogues were ahead of warriors on ST grull, which more importantly is only at the end of P1, with full p1 bis and a ton of recklessness logs increasing the average. You can see this by analyzing that the median of rogues is higher than warriors and that warriors have a far bigger spread. Again all at the end of P1 bis, when also encountering that council and magtheridon had huge burst aoe openers that heavily boosted warriors up, but still they couldnt even come close to hunters and warlocks and when it was single target they were miles behind even by the end of the phase.
As stated in relation warriors were weak and scaled throughout the expansion. week 1 tbc first tier raid was quite different to the last week.
Except i as a warrior am, cause i know they were for the majority of single target on the first tier, it wasnt till later the scaling carried warrior ahead of rogues or cleave fights that warriors were dominating rogues, but still was far behind warlocks and hunters.
Again p2.5 and p.1 still used chicken to boost melees dmg vs those two classes, again skewing their dmg harder and as mentioned reck on top being a one of or twice a raid ability means the logs using it showcases a log that doesnt reflect the actual real in game dps that the warrior would be doing through most of the raid.
Well and that aggrend excluded and left out, that by the same tier fury was gonna be okay, so was ret.
They were and the p1 clearly shows it was the case for the start, where you claimed warriors were not trash, but they were, just like rogues were also bad, compared to hunters and warlocks.
auch, the irony of not being able to look at a graph and analyze it.
P1 gruul
Fury 10
Combat 12
Womp womp