Mystic Touch and Chaos Brand (and things like Arcane Intellect) are silly. They keep going back and forth on this philosophically, but it’s pretty awkward having buffs brought by a single class, imo. I think it’s nice to have at least two options, e.g. Priest OR Warrior for stamina buff (and so forth and so on).
Could give Feral/Guardian a ‘Leader of the Pack’ debuff that mirrors Mystic Touch for example, and then add a druid-only passive (leveling bonus type) that adds the current LotP functionality baseline for the druid only.
Improve group utility without introducing a unique ‘must-have,’ which is already a problem with some classes.
All classes benefit from crit
Not all classes benefit from magic damage
Not all classes benefit from physical damage.
Having at least 1 Feral would be mandatory in raids for that reason
Don’t agree.
People aren’t very apt to taking Ferals in PvE right now… yet groups are clearing content just fine… how can you possibly say it’s “required” to take a feral in the scenario LotP were made baseline? Are you saying groups would suddenly stop knowing how to clear content without a feral if ferals were made more viable?
Do you also think groups would suddenly require a resto Druid if Mark of the Wild was baseline again?? I can assure you that having a Druid was not “required” even back when all specs got MotW… we have a past precedent that proves you wrong, but you keep pushing this load.
Laughable.
Because they don’t bring anything to the raid.
I’ve explained it in almost every post I’ve made in this thread.
Nope, I’m saying they would clear them faster for having an extra raid wide buff available.
If it was tied only to Resto spec, yes.
And there’s past precedence showing Paladins being brought along only to refresh their raid wide buff every 5 minutes, which also proves me right.
Your average AoTC guild has nothing to worry about. But your world first runners and CE guilds who take every advantage they can (which involves spec stacking, and taking underperforming specs such as Havoc, WW, and Warriors) simply for their buffs.
It would be no different if you gave Ferals their own specific buff.
Leader of the pack would bring something to a raid.
And the rest of your post is just ludicrous. Saying LotP shouldn’t be baseline just because world first guilds would then take a feral… that means nothing to 95% of the rest of the playerbase. And even for the top guilds, who cares if they would then have to bring a feral for a 20 man group? Still wouldn’t be “required” by the definition of the word.
Every one of your posts are still laughable. You literally just killed your own argument by reinforcing my stance that “the average AotC guild would have nothing to worry about”
Most melee either bring:
- Raid/Party buff (warrior, DH, monk, paladin, enhance)
- Raid defensive (warrior, DK, DH)
- Immunity of some form (Warrior, Paladin, SV Hunter, DK, Rogue)
So yes, feral needs something if they want a spot. Unless your group just doesn’t have one of the above available, then feral has a spot. Typically your melee spots are taken by DKs & Warriors + a monk/rogue or DH so there are really only 2 spots maybe that feral can compete for.
Objectively, if I had to choose melee feral would be at the 2nd bottom of the list above SV hunter which also needs help.
I would argue also that all raid buffs / defensives should simply be removed from the game for non healers, bring classes/specs on their own merit.
Yes, which would make it a mandatory buff to have in the raid, making Feral mandatory.
That would be true for every aspect of the game then. And this “need” for feral to have something unique to bring to the raid is a moot point.
Heroic Sire was downed by a full Guardian Druid group. Don’t even need healers or DPS.
KSM had been completed by all specs. Don’t need meta.
Mythic raid has been cleared by all specs. Meaning Feral has been getting invited to raids as well, so why do they need something unique or anything at all?
I mean by those standards, there’s no issue meaning there’s no need for a solution. So feral is fine
You have no idea what you are talking about. You keep contradicting yourself without interjection.
You are the only one who doesn’t feel ferals need some raid appeal and I honestly doubt you even play feral.
I think it should either be - give every class/spec a unique ability to promote diversity.
OR
Remove it all and then pick based on performance.
Done, easy.
Especially considering LotP was baseline for feral for multiple expansions, then taken away, then left out of the “unpruning” - yet DKs get friggin EVERYTHING.
That’s the problem though. Then you’re only required to bring 1 of that class for the buff.
Monks and warriors and DHs are prime examples. You didn’t need multiple warriors, especially if Fury was behind Arms. You just brought Arms Warrior for the buff and better DPS. Wouldn’t help Protections or Fury’s representation.
And that’s the current issue with Feral. They’re being outshined by Balance. Balance can do everything Feral can, plus put out more damage, and be ranged on top of it. If we have a buff to Druids, Balance would still be the default pick. And Ferals would still be left behind with no real reason to bring them.
And that goes back to Monks and their buff. Even though they were underperforming and could have been replaced by a better DPS, they were tagging along simply due to the buff they brought.
It is not feral vs balance, because there is not a druid-wide utility we bring. That is never the conversation “should we bring feral or boomkin”.
No.
It is boomkin, or another mage / Spriest / lock etc.
Then it is feral vs other melee. I’m not sure why people think it is feral vs boomkin, there is not a situation where you make a raid comp or M+ group and think of it that way.
If MotW was back, then yes that would be the conversation. That is people want a feral unique utility - to compete with the melee who do.
Because you’re not just looking at damage profiles. You’re looking at utility. Which is why DKs are so popular. Not only do they have good damage, they also have AMZ which is crazy strong.
Why it’s Boomkin vs Feral is because of the toolkit.
On a standalone basis, Feral brings more utility than any other melee. So why aren’t Ferals getting a shoe in? Because Balance already brings all of that utility, and then some more. Plus they’re ranged on top of it which is preferred over melee currently.
If it wasn’t for utility, then you’d only bring 4 specs to the raid
- 2 same tanks
- 4 of the same healers with the best numbers
- 4-5 of the highest melee spec
- 9-10 of the highest ranged DPS spec.
So for example, your raid would look like: 2 Prot Paladins, 4 holy priests, 4 UH DKs, 10 Aff Locks.
So this post doesn’t make any sense, I’ll let someone else tear it up but it’s just clear you aren’t raiding much / doing comps.
Let me ask you this: you need a brez for your group. 2 Druids apply(one balance, one feral). They both do the same damage, and neither brings a group wide buff.
Which do you bring, and why?
Ones melee and ones ranged and we all know how much melee get screwed on this expansion… Melee need to be the buff bringers to be desired. Leader of the pack should at minimum be a group only buff instead of raid wide.
How would that apply though? While in a raid, would it just buff the “group” you’re in?
yeah pretty sure thats what it used to be at one stage. Was only a party buff not a raid buff
That could work - and then in a raid, you would just stack your “most profitable” classes in that group