And hey, guess what it still is after 2.2. Oh that’s what you said, so what is the problem?
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I was going to play TBC Classic, but I wanted to feral it up. Seeing this not be changed will just stop me from playing honestly
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Why feral is an awesome spec in TBC, but yeah if you were wanting kitty being top dps just wait for wrath.
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Are you really believing that people would not have figured out in 2007 that when you switch a weapon or lose a buff like BoW they get “additional” energy? You really think, nobody would have noticed this and it isn’t rather a weird behaviour from their current respective client that? You do realize this isn’t the original TBC client yes?
Im not sure I would bring up GC and his “vision” as a good argument on why powershifitng or the way ferals played in TBC should not be adressed, seeing has he was the guy who was mainly the guy balancing wrath, which is a completely different game than TBC. Im also not sure how you can call powershifting an “unintended mechanic” unless blizzard never checked how players play the game or put talents for druids in completely at random. First talent in the resto tree literally allows you to gain 40 energy when you shift into the form, so you are telling me nobody at blizzard ever thought about the possibility that a player who is out of energy just shifts back into cat after having the energy resource depleted to gain 40 energy instantly? I highly doubt it. Hence “unintended mechanic” seems rather far fetched.
The same devs that stated that icelance does not break nova was perfectly fine for weeks, only to realize later that eh… maybe not? Cool.
Yea im pointing out that their stance is hypocritical. On the one hand they do not care about the energy reggen bug that you can gain via switching weapons or clicking off buffs or consuming trolls blood, but on the other hand they seem to insist on a change in energy reggen that was not there for a part of TBC and was an unintended change to boot according to a blue post.
If this is your response, then nothing Blizzard says matters since the only thing you care about is what you think ought to be working or not.
There’s no point in proceeding.
/shrug
So you have no valid response? Is that what your response is sayin? I was just pointing out and making the counter point that your argument that said thing is on the “its not a bug list” is pretty much useless considering that they have been wrong about these things before.
but i guess /shrug, since if it does not fit with your narrative its just getting dismissed it seems.
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If you’re going to summarily dismiss Blizzard’s own statements without further qualifying, then you’re just telling me that you only trust Blizzard when your whim says so, so no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise. If Blizzard isn’t to be trusted:
- The CM statement about Patch 2.2 affecting Feral can no longer be trusted.
- All statements regarding powershifting by GC during WotLK Beta can no longer be trusted.
- All statements about what version of TBC we’re using as a reference cannot be trusted.
- All statements about #nochanges vs #somechanges cannot be trusted.
- Etc.
When your rebuttal is “Well they were wrong here…” and you just leave it at that, you aren’t arguing anything in good faith anymore. You just want statements to confirm your priors, else you reject those statements are wrong or very likely wrong. I’m not a huge Popper fan but here, setting yourself up to be utterly unfalsifiable just makes you look silly.
I have not trusted them in years. This project itself should tell you enough. 15 bucks a month Pserver version of vanilla and TBC. So just cause they say something worked that way does not automatically make me believe them. It does not help that they shadowfix tons of things without ever mentioning it.
That said, I do trust that CM statement from years ago because the company was different back then and their priorities were different back then.
Im not sure why you bring GC and Wotlk Beta into the play but nobody cares about that in relation to TBC powershifting and energy managment.
The icelance thing was just an example. You do not argue in good faith either, given that you ignore statements from blue posts as it suits you and love Ghostcrawlers take who only became “important” for Wotlk Balance and nothing else. I have zero idea why anything he says even matters for TBC. It was his take on things that affected Wrath not TBC.
The problem with your reasoning is that you think you are correct, which you are unfortunately not, given from what else i read. So yea. Ofc its easy to claim such nonsense then.
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…then there is nothing more to discuss.
If you have no good arguments ofc. I was not talking with Blizzard, i was talking with you. But i assume you concede so, yea all is well.
You weren’t talking about Blizzard when you said you didn’t trust “them” in years? If the “them” isn’t Blizzard then who is it?
ye i fixed it
It still says that you don’t trust Blizzard so I don’t even know what you’re arguing now…
this forum man… lost OP my bad
As an outsider, and someone that has been watching this train wreck go on; all I can say that both Fasc and Beastfury are correct on all but a few contentious points. Their refusal to listen to the other party and have an actual discussion has derailed this entire thread.
The facts remain as such:
- Powershifting worked like vanilla up until 2.2
- Powershifting stopped working after 2.2 after an update had unforeseen effects on the mechanic. It has yet to be confirmed, officially, if this was an intended change or a byproduct of something else.
- How powershifting works in TBCC is correct in regards to how powershifting worked in patch 2.4.3.
The crux of the argument is whether or not powershifting breaking after 2.2 was a bug or not and if it were a bug in OG TBC, if it should be considered a bug in TBCC. Another problems is blizzard’s track record on “fixing” some things for some classes (ranged AP for hunters, paladin seal twisting with and without batching, ect…) and not for others.
I think that at the end of the day, until blizzard can officially state that the change to how powershifting worked in 2.2 was or was not a bug, we have to accept that in TBCC, the mechanic is working exactly as it did in 2.4.3.
It sucks, but ultimately keeping TBCC a faithful reproduction of TBC is more important that “fixing” something that has been officially stated as “working as intended.” Also, this opens up more “slippery slope” cases, where if blizz fixes something that was otherwise faithful to OG TBC, then how much more complaining will it take for them to capitulate and “fix” something else for another class that is otherwise working as intended…
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This undermines the entire argument about authenticity of which posts we trust, or don’t trust, and which facts we hold true, and which facts we deny.
The moment we attempt to add our own personal bias into the mix of whether the “modern Blizzard” is appropriately trustworthy or not, we open the door to question EVERYTHING BLIZZARD HAS REPORTED ON. That leaves us right where Sprecks says:
The only caveat I would pull out of this is that if Blizzard makes an official statement of any kind and you’re still operating under the assumption of zero trust, then no official statement will matter, if one is ever made or not.
That’s a big reason why these kinds of threads go completely untouched by CMs and Devs because too many posters have it in their head that Blizzard is wrong, they are right, and even if Blizzard Devs themselves lay open the code bare and explain how they are wrong, they’ll just not believe it.
@Bankval, I bring up GC frequently because he was instrumental to development during TBC as well as Wrath and Cata, he just didn’t forge a path into the forums to have frequent discussions until Wrath when the forums themselves got a facelift and we got Role Forums (that are now dead and gone). I also bring up GC repeatedly in the hopes you guys will go seek out those discussions where you can see GC fencing with people who assumed the absolute WORST of Blizzard back then, and come to understand how it is Blizzard treats these problems.
GC may be gone, but the approach to the players remains largely the same.
Technically they HAVE made an official statement in the “not a bug list.” I know people want something specifically regarding powershifting; but until then, this is all we have got.
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Right, and as noted above and in the other thread, this designation is not good enough for a variety of posters who have attempted to comb the record for the “good” Blizzard posts to set aside from the “bad” Blizzard posts… and voila.
It is not even question of if it is true or not. It explicitly states
As was the case with WoW Classic, there are many issues that have been reported to us in the Burning Crusade Classic beta as bugs, but are actually correct behavior in the original game, or are otherwise expected behavior in Burning Crusade Classic.
We know for a fact in some of the bugs in vanilla were reproduced in classic vanilla and were placed on the not a bug list. So the only thing “not a bug” tells us is that according them them it work just as it did in 2.4.3. It does not say anything about the original change in 2.2.
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Thats not even true. There is no trust on blizzard for a multitude of things, but what is preventing em of making an official response? Adressing the CM blue post that said it was an unintended change or… even GC’s comments about it in that relation? Nothing. They could just explain their reasoning. And they do not. Consider that in 2007, a guy posted that energy reggen was changed, buggy and a CM responded to it sayin it was an unintended change. We have been debating this thing for over a week now and nada. No blue post, no nothing. Thats not how “trust” works.
“They are silent cause most people won’t believe em anyway most likely.” do you even realize how stupid this sounds?
He was a big name in wrath but he wasn’t in TBC. Im not saying he was not there, or did not give any input on how things worked. Im just pointing out that its absolutely pointless to bring up a guy who has not been in charge till wrath, an expansion completely different from TBC. Even if he thought he was right at the time that does not mean that this was actually the case. So his comments on powershifting are “eh” in terms of TBC… and i guess that goes for TBCC too now
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