What evidence again? I asked you more then once, and you failed to produce any. There is nothing to deny… Provide the evidence and then MAYBE i will have chance to deny it. As of right now it is simply not possible due to lack of such evidence to deny.
You throwing random BS at me, your previous post just outright LIED about what i said. If you want to argue a point refer to something i actually did say and explain why it was wrong. Instead you resort to trolling, you keep throwing generic you are wrong bla bla. But you can’t so you do the only thing left to you throw out a generic accusation. While i can point exactly as multiple cases where you used your imagination as fact and strait up lied. And i did more then once.
beastfury, i love you my fellow kitty. keep up the fight for the tick. youve presented fasc evidence that he clearly chooses to ignore bc of his evidence. normally in these scenarios you would have people with client side systems who would do some investigating to see what actually happened. I know they have a reference client right now but personally with both sides presenting really solid evidence I would really hope this gets a blue post for some attention. This shouldnt be a maybe one way or the other. I think you and fasc can agree on that? Even if were wrong i personally agree with your underlying message that it falls in line with some changes when its an unintended bug. I hope we get this tick for sure but dont fall to the level where your fasc and your evidence is 100% reliable. Fasc is making logical fallacies left and right but it doesn’t mean their points shouldn’t be taken seriously by the actual developers. trust me i feel the same way as u lol. keep those claws sharpened and lets hope devs actually look into this even in regards to some changes route.
You are very much correct. I do not know know for certain that this was the case at the time. There is some evidence that points to at most. The scenario that facs is presenting as a fact is an actual possibly (imho unlikely but possible). And what large portion of ferals want is a clarity on blizzard stance so we can adjust our plans accordingly (in my case quit) or actually get it in #somechanges.
Thing is even if my point 100% right and it is a bug that was never fixed, this does not mean it will be included in #somechanges. This part is entirely a judgement call from blizzard.
There is no evidence there. Evidence are patch notes, interviews, posts by Blues. Existence of feature or a bug at some point of the game for example. This is evidence.
For example a wrath beta FaQ is evidence, it just does not say what you say it dos. What i quoted was nothing more the your speculations, even if they are correct that still does not make them evidence.
Whole point is you take evidence and you make some conclusions from it. Which are not guaranteed to be correct and can be disputed, you are lacking on the first part you base your conclusion on your imagination rather then facts.
Wrath removed powershifting = blizzard thought powershifting was an exploit.
The lack of logic here is astonishing, i even gave you absurd example of such logic where by this logic using bow as a survival hunter is a bug because they became melee at some point.
Blizzard did not fix the 2.2 bug = they didn’t care or they though it is good for the game.
Yet again, there are 100s of bugs that reported to blizzard and are in the game to this day. Is it possible that is the case? Sure it is possible. And you can even argue about how likely (and imho very fraking unlikely) but you sure as hell can’t state is a fact that this was the reason like you keep saying.
You are in fact correct i have been very clear about excluding evidence that comes from below your back. I made it quite clear that i don’t consider that a reliable source of info. Sorry it made you feel unappreciated.
Still waiting on that list of fallacies by the way…
That’s not the claim being made. If you can’t characterize my argument accurately, you can’t respond to it intelligently.
This is actually completely accurate, since the broad category of “Did not care” and “Liked the results” include a tremendous number of options which accurately describe Blizzard’s behavior post 2.2 until the Energy reset ceased to matter.
You listed two things, one inaccurate, the other accurate but you just don’t want to BELIEVE otherwise. Your feelings don’t make it wrong.
can you provide an example of some “evidence” that was rejected? Or are you just going to keep side stepping the issue and make me believe that it wasn’t real evidence and rightfully rejected because you don’t want to give an example of something you thought was evidence but others did not.
And evidence of that is where exactly? Were you a dev at the time? Was there a post that said that? No… the one only source of this below your back which we already discussed. Just because you say it is so does not make it so.
Sure it is. When i aksed you to provide evidence blizzard considered to be exploit you gave me a FaQ on wrath beta design goals.
Every software company has huge backlogs of bugs needing to be fixed, but since there is limited amount of developers some works has to be prioritized. Given that wrath development was already on the way and quite possibly the concept of druid rework was already done, it was not the highest priority given that they had plans to remove it in next expansion. This logic however falls flat now, when entire point of classic to TBC to play TBC and not wrath.
I provided testimony (evidence) that Druids are a minority population in WoW during TBC.
I provided testimony (evidence) that Feral Druids who utilized powershifting were a minority among Druids during TBC.
This evidence, which can be checked of course, contributes to a body of probative evidence that Blizzard’s silence pre-2.2 regarding powershifting is not indicative of assent, but rather lack of awareness of the behavior.
Likewise, Blizzard’s pre-3.0 statements regarding the goals of future Feral in reference to past Feral indicate clearly that powershifting was a design flaw they would not wish to see return ever again. This is further substantiated by the volume of changes that rendered powershifting entirely moot as a skill set. The sole exception to this rule was powershifting to break snares/slows during Wrath. However, Cataclysm saw the demise of this as well by simply removing that power entirely, with no compensation. The Cataclysm change generated a lot of Blue posts on the matter and they explained, much to the anger and hatred of Feral Druids on these very forums, that while it was an iconic ability, it simply caused too many problems within their design space between the powershifting itself and the hard counter to a variety of other class skills.
All of this points to the body of probative evidence that powershifting itself was an unintended, disliked mechanic that Blizzard did not support prior to changing it.
Beastfury’s need to have “Word of God” style refutations be the only viable source of counterargument is simply absurd.
Her entire argument is an argument from silence. A CM called a change unintended but made no promises otherwise as to what would become of the change, and thus to Beastfury, this entire matter is a bug no matter what any current “Not A Bug” list says until Blizzard explicitly addresses that post. Simply put, her argument falls apart from the beginning.
Low priority bugs that are known but not bothered with fall into the “do not care” bucket.
Changes that negatively impact player behavior that Blizzard already dislikes fall into the “liked the results” bucket.
We know it wasn’t a high priority bug to fix, else we’d have seen some evidence of such in the form of a “known bug” list, or attempts to alter the behavior in subsequent patches, etc.
We know it wasn’t ever changed, else we would have seen evidence (with or without a Blizzard post on the matter) of such a change.
We know powershifting was in fact disfavored thanks to GC’s comments on point during Wrath’s early development.
Taken collectively, “Did not care” and/or “Liked the results” explains Blizzard’s stance between 2.2 and 3.0.
You keep mistaking what Blizzard OUGHT to have done, according to you anyway, with what Blizzard actually DID. That’s non sequitur so don’t do that.
This is just you admitting that “Did not care” is entirely accurate.
If a bug exists, is known, but isn’t important enough to fix today, tomorrow, or in the next 4-5 months, despite it having a potential impact on the hardest content of the game at that time before a major reset, then that bug doesn’t matter.
If 2007 Blizzard didn’t care, why should 2021 Blizzard care?
So basically your theory is that Blizzard is retarded and did not know about powershifting mechanic that existed for 1.5 expansions? That seems very realistic.
Not a bug is very clearly refers to the fact this behavior is consistent with 2.4.3 which it is no one argued that. How many times this need to be explained to you?
In other word you have no clue, or have any evidence besides your own imagination. Ok which was our point to begin with. Simple fact is there are tons of different scenarios why the bug was not fixed. You have zero evidence as to which one it is, and yet you make claims LAWL.
I have specifically asked about these and you have yet to provide any. And no wrath design doc do not have them.
Yet again nothing but speculations that you present as a fact. You clearly have never worked for software company.
As for why should they care, i gave you at very least 1 reason. At the time of the bug their development was focused on next expansion, because that is what will make next set income spike. There was limited time left (which kept being extended during end of tbc) before it stops mattering given the future rework of cat dps.
This however is not the case now. The point of classic TBC is to play TBC not to hold out until wrath. It also affect WHOLE tbc not just sunwel.
Stop presenting your delusions as facts, simple as that. At best they are your correct logical conclusions, in reality just your delusions.
As was the case with WoW Classic, there are many issues that have been reported to us in the Burning Crusade Classic beta as bugs, but are actually correct behavior in the original game, or are otherwise expected behavior in Burning Crusade Classic.
Where does it say this is limited to accuracy within 2.4.3 only?
By all means, let me know where it says that.
…and all the evidence you snipped out because you’re feeling a bit cramped in that corner.
You were provided them, as well as pointed where you could find more, and you garbled about how the word exploit didn’t exist in there.
/shrug
Dismissing evidence doesn’t make it speculation.
You clearly have never had a meaningful argument.
…and yet they had time to alter the API thanks to what Ferals were using it for? Oh that’s right, that’s one of those pieces of evidence you don’t count as “real” evidence. My bad.
It is not are you dumb or pretending. The point of TBC classic is to represent the game was it was. Unfortunately there are limitations, and they don’t want to/ it is hard to reproduce entire path of changes through TBC. So they had to pick a point. The point they picked was 2.4.3. The energy works this way in 2.4.3 it is not a BUG that is works this way in classic tbc, it is done on purpose because that is how it worked in 2.4.3. The ask is to include it in #somechanges. It is limited to 2.4.3 because blizzard chose this as their game state presented in classic TBC.
There is no evidence and it still there one post above i didn’t want to quote such a massive block of text.
And if you provided them already, do you kindly mind to refresh my failing memory which is what i was asking you for what 8-9 times now? It really can’t be that hard to copy paste it again. If you referring to design doc, i did ask you which part of it even remotely makes calls it and exploit, not a literal word. Those were you words which yet again you put in my mouth.
Nothing to dismiss there no hard facts in there only speculations, you have zero references to any source of data in there.
I have only seen mentions of this API change, i have no clue what it is. Even if you did present it to me, i did not see and thus clearly did not dismiss it. So mind providing details on that evidence? or like the rest, it will remain a mystery evidence you provided already but don’t feel like pointing out again?
Sorry I wouldn’t take testimony for stuff like that normally without actual evidence (aka numbers) to back up what you claim. However I seem to remember a survey done back then that found Druids were the least played class, around 6% of the player base if I remember correctly.
However just because Druids were under represented does not mean our issues went unnoticed. We had a very loud presence on the forums.
As for the changes in Wrath, Blizzard wanted to tone down/eliminate the “Hybrid tax” as I recall. This meant that Druids had to be expected to stay in catform, not constantly shifting, as time spent out of catform was supposed to be a DPS loss, not a DPS gain.
This is all speculation on your part as there are other “buckets” that the issue could have landed in such as “Unable to fix without breaking something bigger”